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View Poll Results: Which electoral system gets your vote?
Mixed-Member Proportional (MMP) 22 45.83%
Single Transferable Vote (STV) 16 33.33%
Supplementary Member (SM) 4 8.33%
Preferential Voting (PV) 1 2.08%
First Past the Post (FPP) 1 2.08%
I don't know what all this shit means 4 8.33%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12th October 2011, 17:10     #1
BoyWonder
 
Question Referendum a.k.a. I hate the voting system you like!

I'm wondering what the masses think about the referendum and the voting systems in question...

MMP
FPP
Preferential Voting
STV
Supplementary Member

As far as I am concerned relying on coalition governments is bad and governments that have no room for other opinions is bad, but there is no perfect balance either. It seems to me like Supplementary Member would be a better system - what do you think?
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Old 12th October 2011, 17:20     #2
chubby
 
MMP+tweak.
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Old 12th October 2011, 17:26     #3
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
My only preference is for an actual [e-]democracy, so that we can all vote on individual issues.

I don't trust anyone to make decisions on my behalf for every issue that arises (cannabis reform immediately springs to mind), but I wouldn't mind if someone made decisions on my behalf for issues I don't care about.

Voting someone in is just the illusion of choice, since there are many things which contribute to the decision that the MP makes - I don't think that "democratically representing my electorate" comes to mind. When was the last time your MP asked you personally about a particular issue and told you he'd vote based on the replies he/she received? A token letter around election time asking what issues you consider important doesn't count...

I think that having a cutoff for MMP defeats the purpose of it being "representative", since 5% is more than a single seat in parliament, but you need to cross the threshold to be included. If 4% of people want a particular party, shouldn't 4% of the seats go to that party? I can understand if you don't even achieve 1 seat, but 5% seems to be slightly unfair.

I haven't given much consideration to the other systems, but if someone wants to sum them up it would be appreciated.
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Old 12th October 2011, 17:51     #4
BoyWonder
 
Elections have a page here with descriptions but it might not be the best summary going.
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Old 12th October 2011, 17:59     #5
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Supplementary seems better I guess, it reduces the seat threshold to 3.33% (being 1/30). Still doesn't address the issue of how these people vote within Parliament once they become MPs, however.

Does anyone else think a direct democracy would be worthwhile/effective, or am I putting too much faith in people's ability to govern themselves (which is usually a contentious point)?
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Old 12th October 2011, 18:09     #6
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
I don't like the idea of a direct democracy. Frankly most people are not sufficiently smart to make actual decisions on all but the most trivial of matters. Fortunately there is identically no chance one will arise in my lifetime.
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Old 12th October 2011, 18:27     #7
BoyWonder
 
As far as the referendum goes is anyone motivated to pick one of the other options on offer?
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Old 12th October 2011, 18:36     #8
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
STV
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Old 12th October 2011, 18:46     #9
TD
Anas Latrina
 
MMP with a lower threshold (3%?) and without the Maori seats.
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Old 12th October 2011, 18:48     #10
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
STV here.
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Old 12th October 2011, 19:16     #11
Juice
 
STV but won't be holding my breath.
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Old 12th October 2011, 19:25     #12
Saladin
Nothing to See Here!
 
Benevolent Dictatorship
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Old 12th October 2011, 19:41     #13
Deadmeat
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Teapot
I don't like the idea of a direct democracy. Frankly most people are not sufficiently smart to make actual decisions on all but the most trivial of matters. Fortunately there is identically no chance one will arise in my lifetime.
This. See California if you disagree.
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Old 12th October 2011, 19:52     #14
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin
Benevolent Dictatorship
I'm prepared to take the lead role. It will be benevolent for all but more so for some.
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Old 12th October 2011, 20:07     #15
chubby
 
^^ and yet again.
what a douchbag who isnt as smart as he thinks he is sounds like.

keep them coming lolmeister.
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Old 12th October 2011, 20:12     #16
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
The questions are:

Part A
Should New Zealand keep the Mixed Member Proportional (MMP) voting system?

I vote to keep the MMP voting system
I vote to change to another voting system

Part B
If New Zealand were to change to another voting system, which voting system would you choose?

I would choose the First Past the Post system (FPP)
I would choose the Preferential Voting system (PV)
I would choose the Single Transferable Vote system (STV)
I would choose the Supplementary Member system (SM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zea...2011#Questions

A - I vote to keep the MMP voting system.
B - I would choose the Single Transferable Vote system (STV)
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Old 13th October 2011, 06:15     #17
Jodi
 
MMP/STV
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:34     #18
_Incubus_
 
A police state that I'm in charge of.
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:12     #19
Skanks
User Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
STV here
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:17     #20
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
My only preference is for an actual [e-]democracy, so that we can all vote on individual issues.
Agreed. Politicians can vote and decide on certain issues, but the majority are done on a quarterly basis. Online being the predominant source of voting, with a small number of physical locations that can be voted at.
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Old 13th October 2011, 13:33     #21
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chubby
^^ and yet again.
what a douchbag who isnt as smart as he thinks he is sounds like.

keep them coming lolmeister.
You keep setting the bar lower and lower with every post.
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Old 13th October 2011, 14:07     #22
chubby
 
youve been doing pretty well though.
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Old 13th October 2011, 14:24     #23
Delphinus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
Agreed. Politicians can vote and decide on certain issues, but the majority are done on a quarterly basis. Online being the predominant source of voting, with a small number of physical locations that can be voted at.
Its a pity you can't be required to have some form of qualification to vote for certain issues.
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Old 13th October 2011, 14:25     #24
Rince
SLUTS!!!!!!!
 
Ran thru the tool and tells me I really don't like MMP (and second least favourable is FPP).... but gets bit hazy from there: either STV or SM
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Old 13th October 2011, 15:40     #25
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chubby
youve been doing pretty well though.
I'm standing on the bar and my enormous intellect just weighs it down. You sound mad though. Do you even lift?
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Old 13th October 2011, 15:51     #26
Sauron
 
why isn't there a system where you only get one vote for the party and a parties total percentage = their number of seats in parliament? ie: get rid of the electorate seats.

Or am I naive? Being able to influence a parties list would be good but we can't do that under MMP either
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:07     #27
blynk
 
But why would you want to vote for a party where you can not "choose" who gets in? and has no care for your electorate?
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:15     #28
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron
why isn't there a system where you only get one vote for the party and a parties total percentage = their number of seats in parliament? ie: get rid of the electorate seats.
Yeah, I mean we're all Kiwis. Even if no-one in Parliament is actually from my local area, we all have so much in common that I'm virtually represented by the people who are in Parliament.

Virtual representation. That has a nice ring to it. Winning concept.
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:29     #29
Saladin
Nothing to See Here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Even if no-one in Parliament is actually from my local area
Russel Norman's an aussie mate, vote green!
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:40     #30
Sauron
 
I don't see what benefit my local mp gives me at the moment? Admitidly I live in Wellington but lets say you're in the Otaki region (is that darren hughes?). If his party was in government how much can he really influence his party to benefit otaki?
I see where your coming from but to me the local MP is like the city council
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:30     #31
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron
Or am I naive?
Not really, but on the other hand you didn't ask why we can't have a parliament with just one person from each party with voting power relative to popularity. Or to go further and have just one person applying the votes according to mechanical rules (as happens today anyway).
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Old 13th October 2011, 17:32     #32
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin
Russel Norman's an aussie mate, vote green!
He's a rabid communist and green for nearly two centuries has been the colour of choice for communists (except where red has cultural significance).
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Old 13th October 2011, 21:32     #33
chubby
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Yeah, I mean we're all Kiwis. Even if no-one in Parliament is actually from my local area, we all have so much in common that I'm virtually represented by the people who are in Parliament.

Virtual representation. That has a nice ring to it. Winning concept.
i see the quote... but you know that could really easily be seen as taking the piss out've your boys.
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Old 13th October 2011, 21:34     #34
chubby
 
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Teapot
He's a rabid communist and green for nearly two centuries has been the colour of choice for communists (except where red has cultural significance).
hey.. pxpx. take for granted that by mocking this fuckhead im making a fool of myself.
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Old 14th October 2011, 12:09     #35
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I was making an electoral-systems joke. You seem to have missed it.
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Old 14th October 2011, 12:33     #36
chubby
 
too much time here being angry with oil.
kills the last traces of humour i have left.
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Old 14th October 2011, 12:35     #37
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Actually I'm with you on the angry with oil bit. Still so furious I can hardly bear to think about it.
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Old 31st October 2011, 08:42     #38
Rince
SLUTS!!!!!!!
 
hahahaah: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-to-oppose-MMP
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Old 31st October 2011, 11:16     #39
pxpx
 
Ab can we have a poll on the referendum as well? Pretty please?
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Old 31st October 2011, 11:32     #40
cEvin
Love In Vein
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD
MMP with a lower threshold (3%?) and without the Maori seats.
perfect
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