Donald Trump thus far - Page 21

The Edge · 13th June 2020, 12:07

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...e-loses-315736
I'll believe it when I see it.

The Edge · 24th June 2020, 00:03

https://twitter.com/Bogswallop/statu...622025218?s=20

Lightspeed · 4th July 2020, 15:39

Trump is projecting like a laser beam in his speech at Mt Rushmore. What he's accusing BLM of sounds like he's just described his battle plan of the last few years.

Donald J. Trump is: The Last Confederate.

The Edge · 7th July 2020, 13:56

Ab · 7th July 2020, 14:20

COVID-19 is a Democrat hoax, all the dead bodies are crisis actors, fake news

Nich · 7th July 2020, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Trump is projecting like a laser beam in his speech at Mt Rushmore. What he's accusing BLM of sounds like he's just described his battle plan of the last few years.

Donald J. Trump is: The Last Confederate.

Sounded more like he was referencing Antifa. He mentioned the organiser of the statue destruction was arrested:
https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/ringl...-hes-innocent/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...r-white-house/

Fuck it's tiresome that only right-leaning media is reporting on Antifa. Left-leaning publications are doing the old climate change argument: "Antifa isn't even an organisation, and doesn't exist."

My take:
- Antifa hijacked the peaceful BLM protests to incite violence, graffiti, shine powerful lasers at cops, and destroy buildings.
- that, and people with good intentions sign onto the BLM, antifa because they look no further than the names of the organizations. Their System 1 brain says "A racist scourge of white on black police violence appears to be correct, so fair enough that these people are taking a stand. I support this... also it's more trouble for me if I don't support this, and I don't want any trouble."

StN · 7th July 2020, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trump @ Rushmore

Americans harnessed electricity, split the atom, and gave the world the telephone and the Internet. We settled the Wild West, won two World Wars, landed American astronauts on the Moon — and one day very soon, we will plant our flag on Mars.

Hmmm. Edison and Westinghouse may have been American, but pretty sure Mr Tesla was Hungarian. Also, that nice chap out of Nelson on the hundy had something to do with that business in Manchester University, and Mr Bell hailed from Scotland.

As far as the moon goes, they did stand on the shoulders of Nazis...

Ab · 7th July 2020, 18:06

Electricity - Maxwell and Faraday, English
Atom - Rutherford, Kiwi
Telephone - Bell, Scottish
Internet - Cerf and Kahn, American
West - well duh, let's gloat about genocide and land theft
Wars - I'd give the most credit to Britain in WW1, the Soviet Union in WWII
Moon - yep, it was Germans who put Americans on the Moon

StN · 7th July 2020, 18:37

...and as far as Mars goes, I think South Africa might lay claim to Elon.

bradman · 7th July 2020, 21:49

Heh Nich, you sound like a far right nutter.

You realise that Antifa is Anti-Facist, its in the name. You against them for that? Whats that make you.

Seems like the protests have been mostly peaceful other than overwhelming voilence from the police, other than looters/rioters who the police seem to ignore as they smash protesters. And far right provocateurs.

Funny that you cite two far right sites with stories about some dude , what? defacing a well known american racist and slave owner? Was the statue alive?

I remember your posts on splitting your tongue back in the day and thought you were a fkn numbnut. Naaaaillllled it.

Nich · 7th July 2020, 23:36

A name can be anything if it works in gaining support from enough suckers. National Socialist German Workers’ Party, for instance. I see what antifa is selling, and I just am not buying it. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I didn't become a fascist as a result!

Do you have a link, twitter thread, or article highlighting the far right provocateurs? It feels like something far right activists (ie proud boys) would do. Pose as antifa to ruin their public image. But did they actually do that?

(also, I vote Independent / Labour)

Lightspeed · 7th July 2020, 23:58

National Socialist German Workers’ Party was like, next level organised. It was a real organisation with coherent beliefs and practices. Antifa is about as real and organised as Anonymous.

Cyberbob · 8th July 2020, 09:57

Has anyone actually self identified as "Antifa" ?
Not anti-facist, but this "Antifa" label.

The only links I've seen are loosely tied to white supremacist groups.

Nich · 8th July 2020, 11:14

Well this Jason Charter fellow for starters. Follow his case as he faces prosecution.

Also Andy Ngo was beaten while covering an Antifa protest some years ago. He has dedicated much of his time since to following antifa and the people involved. Here's Ngo testifying before congress a week ago:
https://youtu.be/XDU3kmi2u6E

Also, here's some names and rap sheets:
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status...171309057?s=21

Cyberbob · 8th July 2020, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nich

Also, here's some names and rap sheets:
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status...171309057?s=21

Got it. So we're on the same page then? As far as I see it, "Antifa" does not mean Anti-Fascist. They're pro violence. White men bringing knives to peaceful protests, in the name of discrediting the legitimacy & labeling the whole BLM/protest movement as violent. Those that self identify with the "Antifa" are largely connected to white supremacy groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradman

...Antifa is Anti-Fascist, its in the name.
Seems like the protests have been mostly peaceful other than overwhelming voilence from the police, other than .. far right provocateurs.
.

The far right provocateurs you speak of, wave the Antifa flag to distract from the largely peaceful BLM movement. Antifa does not mean Anti-Fascist in this case.

Ab · 8th July 2020, 13:24

"Antifa" seems to have morphed from being a focused protest movement targeting the extreme right to being an amorphous mass of everyone who is angry about anything to do with neoliberalism and what that ideology has done to the world since the 1970s. Kinda similar to how the Tea Party movement mutated from being a bunch of Wall Street suits wanting tax reform into being a mess of angry white racists.

Nich · 8th July 2020, 13:34

^^ Agreed. I'd just add that an antifa protest is a flame that attracts anyone (left to right, white to black) who wants to join a mob to commit violence and destruction first, and people angry about neoliberalism second.

Nich · 8th July 2020, 13:52

Also, this was found on Jason Charter's ipod

Nitsokhn Lid - Victory Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpeIy-MoKgQ

Lightspeed · 8th July 2020, 15:00

Does Antifa know all of this?

Nothing · 8th July 2020, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

Got it. So we're on the same page then? As far as I see it, "Antifa" does not mean Anti-Fascist. They're pro violence. White men bringing knives to peaceful protests, in the name of discrediting the legitimacy & labeling the whole BLM/protest movement as violent. Those that self identify with the "Antifa" are largely connected to white supremacy groups.

The far right provocateurs you speak of, wave the Antifa flag to distract from the largely peaceful BLM movement. Antifa does not mean Anti-Fascist in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

"Antifa" seems to have morphed from being a focused protest movement targeting the extreme right to being an amorphous mass of everyone who is angry about anything to do with neoliberalism and what that ideology has done to the world since the 1970s. Kinda similar to how the Tea Party movement mutated from being a bunch of Wall Street suits wanting tax reform into being a mess of angry white racists.

I'm sure there are a bunch of far right racist cunts pretending to be Antifa specifically to drag the name, but those guys are Antifa in the same way that the Nazis were socialists.

The Edge · 8th July 2020, 16:59

This video is destined to get Trump raged (which was its intention).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6d4TgO2NY

Nich · 8th July 2020, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothing

I'm sure there are a bunch of far right racist cunts pretending to be Antifa specifically to drag the name, but those guys are Antifa in the same way that the Nazis were socialists.

Yep, cunts like Martin Weissgerber and Kyle Jurek

bradman · 8th July 2020, 18:13

Has Antifa morphed Ab? You must have seen the leaked fbi reports on how Antifa have fk all involvement in any riots/looting. I'll find the articles and refs if you ANNNNN TEEEEFAAAA dudes lack google fu.

And man Nich - you got anything on my post?

You must have seen the vid of Andy Ngo being recorded inciting right-wing nut jobs to cause violence on protesters a while back??

Holy fuck are you that fucken stupid. If you can't dig that up I'll provide.

bradman · 8th July 2020, 18:32

Hah - I forgot that Andy Ngo is the milkshake dumbass...

here you go nich.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...antifa-877914/

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...rom-the-inside

Nothing · 8th July 2020, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nich

Yep, cunts like Martin Weissgerber and Kyle Jurek

So, you're going to decide what Antifa is based on 2 guys? I guess left wing politics is neoliberalism now because Roger Douglas was in the labour party.

Nich · 8th July 2020, 19:58

strawman to your heart's content. I've made it clear my view on antifa is based on more than some anarcho-commie dipshits.

And bradman, I was hoping you had something there. Guess not. Some "Democrat" embedded journalist calling out Andy Ngo because he wasn't filming or taking notes during an 18 minute video? Then presuming the reason is because Ngo is in cahoots with Patriot Pride.

It's funny that for a decentralised non-organization with no agenda, representation, or leadership antifa sure does attract a lot of defenders. There's no harm in me attacking antifa if no one is associated with it.

bradman · 8th July 2020, 20:04

Hahahaaaa, you inferenced cho dumbass - asked and fucken answered.

Got any facts to refute? Anymore right wing talking points I can poke big fucken holes in?

Straw man that you stupid fuck while you look up up a strawman argument is.

bradman · 8th July 2020, 20:12

As a post note, I count myself as firmly Antifa. So I'll defend the movement as much as I fucken like =]

Suck on that fucktard.

Nich · 8th July 2020, 20:28

so you're more retarded than I initially gave you credit for.

bradman · 8th July 2020, 20:37

Holy fuuuck what a zinger!

Hahaaaa, gimme some facts and not right wing bullshit sites man, unless they have actual facts. Or you cant.

Nothing · 8th July 2020, 21:05

So look, without getting into a defence of ANTIFA as such, I do feel like you just aren't quite understanding something about this. So lets do a little thought experiment:

Imagine there was a group of people whose name was "People Opposed To Shoes", POTS for short. Now, some of them might be opposed to shoes, but not jandals, and some of them might be opposed to shoes but not slippers. And some of them might be opposed to shoes, and any other form of foot covering.

The one thing that you can say is true of all the people that fit into this group is that they are opposed to shoes. If you're not opposed to shoes, then by definition you're not someone who belongs to the category of POTS. Now, some people who are POTS might get into trouble because they burned down a warehouse. POTS might even, under certain circumstances advocate burning down a warehouse if it was full of shoes. But that does not imply that POTS is an organisation that exists to burn down warehouses.

The defining characteristic of POTS is opposition to shoes. Observing POTS who engage in any other activity, even though they identify themselves as POTS, is basically just irrelevant to POTS as a whole.

In particular, if you see some people who are systematically engaged in the activity of, for example, selling underwear, and they claim that they are doing it specifically because they are POTS, then you should be suspicious of that, especially if public sentiment at that particular moment happens to be strongly opposed to underwear. It's true that there might be POTS who like to promote underwear; hell, maybe it is even true that 70% of POTS like to promote underwear, but that does not mean that POTS is an organisation which is primarily interested in promoting underwear, because that is NOT HOW WORDS WORK.

To be someone who identifies with ANTIFA just means that you are anti-fascist. That is all it means. Beyond that, you can literally be just about anything else at all, except fascist. Observing someone doing anything other than opposing fascism and then yelling "ANTIFA" is like observing the sun going across the sky and then yelling DIRT! It's just a mis-use of language.

Nich · 8th July 2020, 21:59

bradman, you realise no one has facts? Only interpretations of anecdotes. Unless I am mistaken, I presume you only accept interpretations from a left perspective. What's the point in engaging with you?

Nothing, It's a good analogy. I get it. Antifa is like a proposed question to which the only answer can be "yes, fascism is terrible." OK, there's nothing there, then. By this definition Antifa encompasses the entire human population. Who the fuck is pro-fascism?

I'd change your analogy slightly. Instead of people selling underwear, I'd change that to people who wear shoes in order to attend their People Opposed To Shoes rallies. 70% of People Opposed To Shoes must resort to wearing shoes to demonstrate their hatred of shoes.

Nothing · 8th July 2020, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nich

Nothing, It's a good analogy. I get it. Antifa is like a proposed question to which the only answer can be "yes, fascism is terrible." OK, there's nothing there, then. By this definition Antifa encompasses the entire human population. Who the fuck is pro-fascism?

I'd change your analogy slightly. Instead of people selling underwear, I'd change that to people who wear shoes in order to attend their People Opposed To Shoes rallies. 70% of People Opposed To Shoes must resort to wearing shoes to demonstrate their hatred of shoes.

Wut? You really think there aren't people who are fascists?

Your modification to the analogy is a bit weird, are you trying to say that anti-fascists behave like fascists to show their hatred of fascism? Because IMO that just makes them fascists who are trying to drag the name of ANTIFA. They're probably doing it because they want to muddy the waters around fascism, due to knowing that fascism is a politically unpopular set of beliefs.

Nich · 9th July 2020, 15:50

Bingo. The question is whether the fascistic antifa autonomous groups are true anarco-commie, far right provocateurs, cops wearing black-bloc attire, or apolitical nihilists who love a street brawl (ie the ying to Proud Boys' yang). I'll go first, I think it's all of the above.

There are professions that are fascist-lite: Police, School teachers, Prison officers, Teen Boot camp instructors
There are people who have fascist thoughts like "I am going to re-educate that bigot."
There are political people who think their world view is pretty neat but some eggs (skulls) will need to be cracked to make the utopia omelette

None of these people consider themselves pro-fascist.

Nothing · 9th July 2020, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nich

Bingo. The question is whether the fascistic antifa autonomous groups are true anarco-commie, far right provocateurs, cops wearing black-bloc attire, or apolitical nihilists who love a street brawl (ie the ying to Proud Boys' yang). I'll go first, I think it's all of the above.

The definition matters. So, first off, "true anarco-commie" and "fascistic antifa" (where fascistic antifa means someone who is pro-fascist but is abusing the term anti-fascist) is a contradiction in terms. Being anarcho-communist isn't compatible with being fascist, since fascism directly implies hierarchies. So there are no 'true anarco-commies' who are also 'fascistic antifa'.

For ever other possibility you list there, it is true that it is possible for a person to go around claiming to be anti-fascist while still actually being pro-fascist, or at the very least apolitical, but in that case it's just a lie. They're not actually anti-fascist, and therefore not actually antifa. They're just abusing the term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nich

There are professions that are fascist-lite: Police, School teachers, Prison officers, Teen Boot camp instructors
There are people who have fascist thoughts like "I am going to re-educate that bigot."
There are political people who think their world view is pretty neat but some eggs (skulls) will need to be cracked to make the utopia omelette

None of these people consider themselves pro-fascist.

You know that fascism isn't authoritarianism simpliciter, right? Fascism involves a specific set of, usually bigoted, beliefs about who gets to be in control. So like, it seems unlikely that it's completely fair to just label school teachers as fascist-lite, and it seems weird to suggest that "I am going to re-educate that bigot." is a fascist thought, given how much bigotry typically goes along with fascism. The way you talk about it, it sort of sounds like you think that anything that infringes liberty in any way at all is fascism, but that seems a poor definition for fascism.

There are people who recognise that their political view is fascist. They often go to great lengths to generate support for their view without explicitly identifying it as fascism.

Nich · 9th July 2020, 19:24

Now we're getting somewhere, thank you.

I am going to settle for subsets of fascism because I don't see how any western country is anywhere close to a full spectrum fascist state. White nationalists are a joke and attract bugger all to their rallies, sense of patriotism and national pride is at an all time low, Central banking ensures socialism for the rich and rugged capitalism for the rest (i.e not Capitalism), no central authority deciding which ideas to suppress, and no dictators.

Also, as COVID has demonstrated, there are no leaders rising to the top. No youtube video could ever be viral enough to sway enough fascist useful idiots to the cause.

Most people still have food in their bellies, have a smartphone in their hand, and can pay their rent / mortgage.. and no thermo-nuclear wars. If this changes there might be a dictator-shaped void to be filled.

bradman · 9th July 2020, 19:52

hey hey Nich, appreciate your coolness so i'll back off on being a belligerent asshole =]

I'll hit you up on no facts though, there is a tonne of video evidence on police smashing protesters, theres multiple stories (with video), and I linked a few, of right wing agitators framing Antifa or BLM. I can drag up fox news articles with chopped pictures to make if as if Antifa or BLM were doing 'bad things'

fox 'apolgised' on the photochopped images with some bullshit excuse I cant recall, but will look it up if you dont believe.

The fbi, a conservative/authorative institution have reported that they have no signs Antifa have been involved in any shit happening in the BLM protests, they actually had found right wing groups planning on using the protests as cover for violence.

I'll pull those stories if required too.

Anyway devisive times =/

bradman · 9th July 2020, 19:59

Also - how are teachers semi-facist? You want an example of a strawman arguement...

Lightspeed · 9th July 2020, 20:04

Well that I can get on board with. Rigidly organised, authoritarian, a lesser class of human free to be impinged upon by the superior humans of this organisation. School or Third Reich?

bradman · 9th July 2020, 20:29

Heh , LS -you funny!

mmmm love Public Enemy, and love this new cut they have...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQvD...&start_radio=1

13th June 2020, 12:07	#801
The Edge	https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...e-loses-315736 I'll believe it when I see it.

24th June 2020, 00:03	#802
The Edge	https://twitter.com/Bogswallop/statu...622025218?s=20

4th July 2020, 15:39	#803
Lightspeed	Trump is projecting like a laser beam in his speech at Mt Rushmore. What he's accusing BLM of sounds like he's just described his battle plan of the last few years. Donald J. Trump is: The Last Confederate. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

7th July 2020, 13:56	#804
The Edge	Last edited by The Edge : 7th July 2020 at 13:59.

7th July 2020, 14:20	#805
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	COVID-19 is a Democrat hoax, all the dead bodies are crisis actors, fake news

7th July 2020, 18:06	#808
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Electricity - Maxwell and Faraday, English Atom - Rutherford, Kiwi Telephone - Bell, Scottish Internet - Cerf and Kahn, American West - well duh, let's gloat about genocide and land theft Wars - I'd give the most credit to Britain in WW1, the Soviet Union in WWII Moon - yep, it was Germans who put Americans on the Moon

7th July 2020, 18:37	#809
StN I have detailed files	...and as far as Mars goes, I think South Africa might lay claim to Elon.

7th July 2020, 21:49	#810
bradman	Heh Nich, you sound like a far right nutter. You realise that Antifa is Anti-Facist, its in the name. You against them for that? Whats that make you. Seems like the protests have been mostly peaceful other than overwhelming voilence from the police, other than looters/rioters who the police seem to ignore as they smash protesters. And far right provocateurs. Funny that you cite two far right sites with stories about some dude , what? defacing a well known american racist and slave owner? Was the statue alive? I remember your posts on splitting your tongue back in the day and thought you were a fkn numbnut. Naaaaillllled it.

7th July 2020, 23:36	#811
Nich	A name can be anything if it works in gaining support from enough suckers. National Socialist German Workers’ Party, for instance. I see what antifa is selling, and I just am not buying it. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I didn't become a fascist as a result! Do you have a link, twitter thread, or article highlighting the far right provocateurs? It feels like something far right activists (ie proud boys) would do. Pose as antifa to ruin their public image. But did they actually do that? (also, I vote Independent / Labour) Last edited by Nich : 7th July 2020 at 23:38.

7th July 2020, 23:58	#812
Lightspeed	National Socialist German Workers’ Party was like, next level organised. It was a real organisation with coherent beliefs and practices. Antifa is about as real and organised as Anonymous. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

8th July 2020, 09:57	#813
Cyberbob	Has anyone actually self identified as "Antifa" ? Not anti-facist, but this "Antifa" label. The only links I've seen are loosely tied to white supremacist groups. __________________ ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ

8th July 2020, 11:14	#814
Nich	Well this Jason Charter fellow for starters. Follow his case as he faces prosecution. Also Andy Ngo was beaten while covering an Antifa protest some years ago. He has dedicated much of his time since to following antifa and the people involved. Here's Ngo testifying before congress a week ago: https://youtu.be/XDU3kmi2u6E Also, here's some names and rap sheets: https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status...171309057?s=21

8th July 2020, 13:24	#816
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	"Antifa" seems to have morphed from being a focused protest movement targeting the extreme right to being an amorphous mass of everyone who is angry about anything to do with neoliberalism and what that ideology has done to the world since the 1970s. Kinda similar to how the Tea Party movement mutated from being a bunch of Wall Street suits wanting tax reform into being a mess of angry white racists.

8th July 2020, 13:34	#817
Nich	^^ Agreed. I'd just add that an antifa protest is a flame that attracts anyone (left to right, white to black) who wants to join a mob to commit violence and destruction first, and people angry about neoliberalism second.

8th July 2020, 13:52	#818
Nich	Also, this was found on Jason Charter's ipod Nitsokhn Lid - Victory Song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpeIy-MoKgQ

8th July 2020, 15:00	#819
Lightspeed	Does Antifa know all of this? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

8th July 2020, 16:59	#821
The Edge	This video is destined to get Trump raged (which was its intention). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6d4TgO2NY

8th July 2020, 18:13	#823
bradman	Has Antifa morphed Ab? You must have seen the leaked fbi reports on how Antifa have fk all involvement in any riots/looting. I'll find the articles and refs if you ANNNNN TEEEEFAAAA dudes lack google fu. And man Nich - you got anything on my post? You must have seen the vid of Andy Ngo being recorded inciting right-wing nut jobs to cause violence on protesters a while back?? Holy fuck are you that fucken stupid. If you can't dig that up I'll provide. Last edited by bradman : 8th July 2020 at 18:15.

8th July 2020, 18:32	#824
bradman	Hah - I forgot that Andy Ngo is the milkshake dumbass... here you go nich. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...antifa-877914/ https://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...rom-the-inside

8th July 2020, 19:58	#826
Nich	strawman to your heart's content. I've made it clear my view on antifa is based on more than some anarcho-commie dipshits. And bradman, I was hoping you had something there. Guess not. Some "Democrat" embedded journalist calling out Andy Ngo because he wasn't filming or taking notes during an 18 minute video? Then presuming the reason is because Ngo is in cahoots with Patriot Pride. It's funny that for a decentralised non-organization with no agenda, representation, or leadership antifa sure does attract a lot of defenders. There's no harm in me attacking antifa if no one is associated with it.

8th July 2020, 20:04	#827
bradman	Hahahaaaa, you inferenced cho dumbass - asked and fucken answered. Got any facts to refute? Anymore right wing talking points I can poke big fucken holes in? Straw man that you stupid fuck while you look up up a strawman argument is.

8th July 2020, 20:12	#828
bradman	As a post note, I count myself as firmly Antifa. So I'll defend the movement as much as I fucken like =] Suck on that fucktard.

8th July 2020, 20:28	#829
Nich	so you're more retarded than I initially gave you credit for.

8th July 2020, 20:37	#830
bradman	Holy fuuuck what a zinger! Hahaaaa, gimme some facts and not right wing bullshit sites man, unless they have actual facts. Or you cant.

8th July 2020, 21:05	#831
Nothing	So look, without getting into a defence of ANTIFA as such, I do feel like you just aren't quite understanding something about this. So lets do a little thought experiment: Imagine there was a group of people whose name was "People Opposed To Shoes", POTS for short. Now, some of them might be opposed to shoes, but not jandals, and some of them might be opposed to shoes but not slippers. And some of them might be opposed to shoes, and any other form of foot covering. The one thing that you can say is true of all the people that fit into this group is that they are opposed to shoes. If you're not opposed to shoes, then by definition you're not someone who belongs to the category of POTS. Now, some people who are POTS might get into trouble because they burned down a warehouse. POTS might even, under certain circumstances advocate burning down a warehouse if it was full of shoes. But that does not imply that POTS is an organisation that exists to burn down warehouses. The defining characteristic of POTS is opposition to shoes. Observing POTS who engage in any other activity, even though they identify themselves as POTS, is basically just irrelevant to POTS as a whole. In particular, if you see some people who are systematically engaged in the activity of, for example, selling underwear, and they claim that they are doing it specifically because they are POTS, then you should be suspicious of that, especially if public sentiment at that particular moment happens to be strongly opposed to underwear. It's true that there might be POTS who like to promote underwear; hell, maybe it is even true that 70% of POTS like to promote underwear, but that does not mean that POTS is an organisation which is primarily interested in promoting underwear, because that is NOT HOW WORDS WORK. To be someone who identifies with ANTIFA just means that you are anti-fascist. That is all it means. Beyond that, you can literally be just about anything else at all, except fascist. Observing someone doing anything other than opposing fascism and then yelling "ANTIFA" is like observing the sun going across the sky and then yelling DIRT! It's just a mis-use of language. Last edited by Nothing : 8th July 2020 at 21:09.

8th July 2020, 21:59	#832
Nich	bradman, you realise no one has facts? Only interpretations of anecdotes. Unless I am mistaken, I presume you only accept interpretations from a left perspective. What's the point in engaging with you? Nothing, It's a good analogy. I get it. Antifa is like a proposed question to which the only answer can be "yes, fascism is terrible." OK, there's nothing there, then. By this definition Antifa encompasses the entire human population. Who the fuck is pro-fascism? I'd change your analogy slightly. Instead of people selling underwear, I'd change that to people who wear shoes in order to attend their People Opposed To Shoes rallies. 70% of People Opposed To Shoes must resort to wearing shoes to demonstrate their hatred of shoes.

9th July 2020, 15:50	#834
Nich	Bingo. The question is whether the fascistic antifa autonomous groups are true anarco-commie, far right provocateurs, cops wearing black-bloc attire, or apolitical nihilists who love a street brawl (ie the ying to Proud Boys' yang). I'll go first, I think it's all of the above. There are professions that are fascist-lite: Police, School teachers, Prison officers, Teen Boot camp instructors There are people who have fascist thoughts like "I am going to re-educate that bigot." There are political people who think their world view is pretty neat but some eggs (skulls) will need to be cracked to make the utopia omelette None of these people consider themselves pro-fascist.

9th July 2020, 19:24	#836
Nich	Now we're getting somewhere, thank you. I am going to settle for subsets of fascism because I don't see how any western country is anywhere close to a full spectrum fascist state. White nationalists are a joke and attract bugger all to their rallies, sense of patriotism and national pride is at an all time low, Central banking ensures socialism for the rich and rugged capitalism for the rest (i.e not Capitalism), no central authority deciding which ideas to suppress, and no dictators. Also, as COVID has demonstrated, there are no leaders rising to the top. No youtube video could ever be viral enough to sway enough fascist useful idiots to the cause. Most people still have food in their bellies, have a smartphone in their hand, and can pay their rent / mortgage.. and no thermo-nuclear wars. If this changes there might be a dictator-shaped void to be filled.

9th July 2020, 19:52	#837
bradman	hey hey Nich, appreciate your coolness so i'll back off on being a belligerent asshole =] I'll hit you up on no facts though, there is a tonne of video evidence on police smashing protesters, theres multiple stories (with video), and I linked a few, of right wing agitators framing Antifa or BLM. I can drag up fox news articles with chopped pictures to make if as if Antifa or BLM were doing 'bad things' fox 'apolgised' on the photochopped images with some bullshit excuse I cant recall, but will look it up if you dont believe. The fbi, a conservative/authorative institution have reported that they have no signs Antifa have been involved in any shit happening in the BLM protests, they actually had found right wing groups planning on using the protests as cover for violence. I'll pull those stories if required too. Anyway devisive times =/ Last edited by bradman : 9th July 2020 at 19:55.

9th July 2020, 19:59	#838
bradman	Also - how are teachers semi-facist? You want an example of a strawman arguement...