The Electoral Finance Bill

[Juha]

Originally Posted by JP

So rich people should have more say in democracy? No.

Poor rich people, they have it so hard. With all those privileges and luxuries. It's such a shame society makes it so hard for them. Oh wait.

I'm sorry, this just comes across as jealousy, nothing more and nothing less. Grow up.

No, no one should have more of a say, but people should be able to spend their money as they wish. One person, one vote, not one dollar one vote - and with that I completely agree. I'm against annonymous donations. I'm against donating through trust. But a spending cap is wrong, and if people want to be part of the political process, and are spending their own money to do so, then so be it.

Also, considering how much tax they avoid paying, I have no sympathy for them.

12% of the population - 55% of the tax. How much more would you like one particular sector of society to pay?

Wealthy people get more luxuries, and that's all they should get. They get far more privileges than they should as it stands, with regards to law, health, education etc.

How? Do you have any statistics to back this up? Consdering the pressure most 'rich' probably alleviate from the current system by reverting to the private sector, you might want to rethink this - of course, I have equally as little statistical backing as you do, but it's apparently not an issue.

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally Posted by Juha

No, no one should have more of a say, but people should be able to spend their money as they wish. One person, one vote, not one dollar one vote - and with that I completely agree. I'm against annonymous donations. I'm against donating through trust. But a spending cap is wrong, and if people want to be part of the political process, and are spending their own money to do so, then so be it.

The problem being that the more money spent the more influence that they have upon the populace so it ends up being $1, 1 vote. This is why election spending has been restricted in NZ for several decades.

In a society you need to restrict people otherwise selfish people will destroy the community. You can't restrict them too much else society collapses but you can't give everyone carte blanche else society gets torn apart.

12% of the population - 55% of the tax. How much more would you like one particular sector of society to pay?

The amount they're actually legally obliged to pay.

[Ab]

Little surprise that Kiwis who can are moving to Australia at the rate of 800 per week.

[Juha]

Originally Posted by Draco T Bastard

The problem being that the more money spent the more influence that they have upon the populace so it ends up being $1, 1 vote. This is why election spending has been restricted in NZ for several decades.

In a society you need to restrict people otherwise selfish people will destroy the community. You can't restrict them too much else society collapses but you can't give everyone carte blanche else society gets torn apart.

True, but there must be tidier ways of doing it than this - ie; just ban it all completely.

[Hannibal]

Originally Posted by Juha

True, but there must be tidier ways of doing it than this - ie; just ban it all completely.

Well, since that is not an option they can either restrict it to the best of their ability (no solution will please everyone) or let it continue to Americanize itself. Just what NZ needs.. billion dollar elections buying into office religious fundamentalist leaders determined to kick off the rapture.

[EvilLumpy]

Hannibal, have you been listening to Jello Biafra again?

[SpaceCowboy]

im going to start a revolution in te anau and declare independance in my new country. whos with me?!

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Ab

Little surprise that Kiwis who can are moving to Australia at the rate of 800 per week.

very efficient - its like a self-weeding garden

[Drgnfire]

Originally Posted by Ab

Little surprise that Kiwis who can are moving to Australia at the rate of 800 per week.

I'd love to but having difficulty convincing the wife (probably because we wouldn't be able to take our cat or our dog with us). My main issue is my lack of qualifications, I have over 14 years IT industry experience but no quals which may make it difficult to find a job

[SID|DensitY]

IMO voting should be like a driver's license. you sit a test to prove you understand the options that all of the parties are presenting to you, what each party stands for etc. if you pass then you hare informed enough to vote.

Harsh? well too bad. for next year's election I'm going todo my upmost to be informed about each party and I'm frankly going to be pissed if X party wins due to some lolly scramble policy and outrageous promises that only stupid people believe.

EDIT: and yes this is off topic

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by EvilLumpy

Hannibal, have you been listening to Jello Biafra again?

He has very good taste if he has been.

[crocos]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

very efficient - its like a self-weeding garden

So when are you leaving then?

[Ab]

I see the issue of "donations" is biting the Labour Party on the backside in Britain as well.

[Draco T Bastard]

This is somewhat amusing.

Originally Posted by article

Much of what Parliament passes each year could be subverted by the courts or a vindictive prosecution if taken to its nth degree. This newspaper could be designated a terrorist entity by Prime Minister Helen Clark tomorrow if she so chose, under the Terrorism Suppression Act. She is unlikely to do so, however subversive she might find it on occasion.

[Juha]

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/flashvideo/..._live_128k.asx

[Ab]

OMG, what the hell is going on?

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/12/ov...mendments.html

[CCS]

And you thought the Terrorism Suppression Act was unworkable and incoherent...

I was leaning toward voting National in the next election but this Electoral Finance farce is really helping cement my decision. I wonder if Helen realises this bill could bring about her fate?

[Ab]

A new version with 150 changes, delivered ONE HOUR before voting?

[ZoSo]

Originally Posted by funnel web

Good speech by Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TexP6VACeCM

Unexpected excellence in the house.

I still don't like National going for amendments though. I wish they'd totally wash their hands of it and continue to put as much pressure on as possible, rather than get tagged alongside it later on. Even if they are good ones. Either way, Clark and her pissant crew are going to spin it to their advantage.

It's a fucking disgrace. Esp. the greens on this one. Where's Locke now?

[chubby]

http://www.publicaddress.net/default,4673.sm#post4673

[caffiend]

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by V

... Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you ...

[JP]

I think that may be just a little bit over dramatic for this situation. Just a little.

[caffiend]

Baby steps JP. Baby steps.

[Draco T Bastard]

Originally Posted by caffiend

[/img]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6446/vtvlz6.jpg[/img]

Nationals not in power yet.

[Hannibal]

Originally Posted by CCS

I wonder if Helen realises this bill could bring about her fate?

Yeah, a highly vocal minority of a few 1,000 evangelicals and multi-millionaires could bring down Helen -not

I really don't know who to vote for anymore. I don't like anyone these days. I would be keen to vote for a green party that was actually a true green party and not so bloomin crazy..

[StN]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

I would be keen to vote for a green party that was actually a true green party and not so bloomin crazy..

You mean, those concepts aren't mutually exclusive?

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

I really don't know who to vote for anymore. I don't like anyone these days.

Yeah, I hear that. And the NZ Greens? They're whores, and have sold out to Auntie Helen.

[Juha]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

I really don't know who to vote for anymore. I don't like anyone these days. I would be keen to vote for a green party that was actually a true green party and not so bloomin crazy..

I'm in the same boat. National hasn't learned it's lesson, even after all this time, that the answer is not sell off state assets. Labour, likewise, has shown an increasing centralist stance towards governance, including the refusal to budge on petrol taxes and their repeatedly abysmal efforts to unbundle Telecom - when they finally put in a minister who wasn't a pussy.

[sky_]

Originally Posted by Juha

I'm in the same boat. National hasn't learned it's lesson, even after all this time, that the answer is not sell off state assets. Labour, likewise, has shown an increasing centralist stance towards governance, including the refusal to budge on petrol taxes and their repeatedly abysmal efforts to unbundle Telecom - when they finally put in a minister who wasn't a pussy.

NZGames Political Party anyone?

[TnT]

It's time the McGuillicudy Serious party made a return.

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by sky_

NZGames Political Party anyone?

Where can I join this political party?

Obviously Ab is Prime Minister. Helious- gets the 'Macking' portfolio. Hannibal is Minister of Truth. CCS gets the 'Chuckles' portfolio.

I want to head up the Ministry of Backhand Payoffs and Abused Priveleges.

[Sp0nge]

I know who I'm voting for next election:

aunty.

(and what's with Ab's repeatedly linking to kiwiblog???
have i been wrong all these years in assuming youre an independent thinker?
...or have you found an idol?
lol)

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Ab

Yeah, I hear that. And the NZ Greens? They're whores, and have sold out to Auntie Helen.

Oh for a credible left of centre party without the nut jobs.

[[Malks] Pixie]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Oh for a credible left of centre party without the nut jobs.

The thing that gets me about the greens is they swing from absolute brilliance to absolute nonsense within the same party. They're really switched on about certain issues and incredibly progressive with some of their policies - but on other issues they seem to harken from the stone age.

Pixie

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Sp0nge

(and what's with Ab's repeatedly linking to kiwiblog???
have i been wrong all these years in assuming youre an independent thinker?

I HAS AN AGENDA

[Sp0nge]

dont we all?

but quoting DF is akin to using coldplay

btw, I've also sensed you're listening to the mass media too much in the last month...(thats right: i 'sensed' it)

the media is the new religion: a tool to conform you

dont change too much dude
next thing you know
we'll have ads on nzgames

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Hannibal

Yeah, a highly vocal minority of a few 1,000 evangelicals and multi-millionaires could bring down Helen -not

I'm not talking about the people funding National, you dope. I'm talking about all the voters that are pissed off with Helen railroading a shoddy bill into law. All the people who are borderline (like myself, as stated earlier) may well be pissed off enough to vote National. I don't know if you were paying attention last election, but it was a pretty close result. With Helen digging her heels in with this bill, it could spell her demise.

Clear enough for you now, Hanniballs?

[MoP]

Originally Posted by caffiend

Where can I join this political party?
Obviously Ab is Prime Minister. Helious- gets the 'Macking' portfolio. Hannibal is Minister of Truth. CCS gets the 'Chuckles' portfolio.
I want to head up the Ministry of Backhand Payoffs and Abused Priveleges.

Chiq gets the ministry of Dirndls

[Ab]

Electoral Finance Bill passes into law

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4328728a6009.html

Unbelievable.