Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Bill

[ceer]

From one of many blogs...

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/copyright

Interesting to see how it will go...I'm assuming that downloading TV series would also be covered under this...maybe?

[fidgit]

Originally Posted by ceer

From one of many blogs...

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/copyright

Interesting to see how it will go...I'm assuming that downloading TV series would also be covered under this...maybe?

One stand out for me is that they still haven't settled on what kinds of fines the Copyright Tribunal will be allowed to dole out based on infringement. This is apparently something that will be determined after the bill is passed, which seems pretty suspicious. If they set the bar really high (as the Americans allow), I'm sure we'll see some attempts to get people fined thousands for single albums. I'd like to see something much more realistic. How about a $100 limit per album? Enough to make you go "fuck that sucks and wasn't worth it, I guess I'll stop downloading cd's", while at the same time not guaranteeing you'll be financially crippled for life. (Because lets be honest, a shit load of people would be seriously fucked by a $100,000 fine for infringing copyright, and at the same time, the number is so out of proportion to the offending as to seem comical to the regular school-kid pirate.) Plus, when I've pirated one CD, the NZRIA hasn't lost $100,000, they've lost nothing, and at the very very most, $35.

[xpandnz]

Originally Posted by fidgit

........Plus, when I've pirated one CD, the NZRIA hasn't lost $100,000, they've lost nothing, and at the very very most, $35.

Yup. And the sad thing is about $1 of that $35 actually goes to the musician.

I've seen a few comments from others in support of piracy claiming that these copyright bills are nothing more then the desperate plea from large scale record companies trying to increase profits.

And thats a really valid point.

After studying Popular Music at Uni last year, it was interesting to see how there are Four Major Labels now which then branch off with other label names: sort of like Restaurant Brands using KFC, Starbucks and Pizza Hut as brands.

It gives a false impression that an independent label is actually that..... independent.

I will buy tickets to see artists play live and will buy the CD if its good.

[ceer]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

I will buy tickets to see artists play live and will buy the CD if its good.

Yes indeed...Hollie Smith...for the word....have purchased her albums...cos they are GOOD

[Thomas Meatball]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

After studying Popular Music at Uni last year, it was interesting to see how there are Four Major Labels now which then branch off with other label names: sort of like Restaurant Brands using KFC, Starbucks and Pizza Hut as brands.

It gives a false impression that an independent label is actually that..... independent.

You had to go to university to learn that?

[fidgit]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

After studying Popular Music at Uni last year.

wut



Serious though, I wonder if you'd have any chance of arguing for a reasonably proportionate fine if you could show you pirated in such a way that prevented specifically uploading (newsgroups perhaps, rather than a torrent), since that way you've not providing pirated material to anyone else. I guess only time and precedent will tell.

[Heresy]

Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball

You had to go to university to learn that?

Yeah, you learn that in LABELS101. It's one of the compulsory papers. The other is REVIEW101 where you have to write a heart-felt review for a CD you like, in a relevant "nu" genre.

[[WanG] Wandarah]

That's a hard paper if you haven't taken 'CRYINGLIKEABITCH101' - if you have, what you learn there makes it much easier.

[MoP]

You can get extra credit if you take CRAWLINGINMYSKIN112 over the summer break

[xpandnz]

its quite funny how i become the stone on the track that seems to derail threads.

thanks for the support when i try to be serious

back to linkin park music to settle my nerves then i guess right

[Rince]

The only Music Appreciation paper you need in the real world:
ELBOWSINLOL301

[p01s0n]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

its quite funny how i become the stone on the track that seems to derail threads.

thanks for the support when i try to be serious

back to linkin park music to settle my nerves then i guess right

well, another option would be if you stopped posting then threads wouldn't get so derailed.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

thanks for the support when i try to be serious

So were you being serious when you were crying over Linkin Park or not? I'm a bit lost.

[Lightspeed]

Fuckin' bullshit laws propping up an industry so it can keep making money. When did our society all of a sudden become about making sure those who make money are able to keep on making money?

[ilk]

When have the powerful ensured that they remain powerful? Must be a recent phenomenon.

[Lightspeed]

I suspect it is, something that's emerged perhaps in the last 10 000 years or so. I suspect it was not so much the case in the 200 000 years prior.

[sv]

wonder how the old 'hacked wireless router' gambit will go...

and presumably people's IPs will be collected from public P2P networks etc, so private networks will be OK...

[xpandnz]

and what about proxy servers? Don't a lot of people use proxies?

All that this is going to do is just make people come up with new ideas to get around it.

I blame limewire and kazaa for all this crap. they made it super easy to get hold of stuff, most of which was fake anyways, and then now we have pretty much everyman and his dog downloading stuff.

[Thomas Meatball]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

I blame limewire and kazaa for all this crap. they made it super easy to get hold of stuff, most of which was fake anyways, and then now we have pretty much everyman and his dog downloading stuff.

Did you learn that in university?

[xpandnz]

of course not prof. thomas meatball.

[Biff]

[Thomas Meatball]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

of course not prof. thomas meatball.

Really? So it's something you came up with all by yourself?

[xpandnz]

yep. weird isnt it

[Thomas Meatball]

Gosh you're thick.

[xpandnz]

dude, i dont know who you are and who you think you are, but i really cant give a shit about what you and all your stupid friends who seem to pick on me on these forums say.

if your brain is so small as to continue to pick me out as your choice of mocking, then so be it. but i enjoy a talk and like to discuss stuff with others.

now please, leave me alone.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

dude, i dont know who you are and who you think you are, but i really cant give a shit about what you and all your stupid friends who seem to pick on me on these forums say.

if your brain is so small as to continue to pick me out as your choice of mocking, then so be it. but i enjoy a talk and like to discuss stuff with others.

now please, leave me alone.

I think it's just a bot that hurls insults. I'm on it's list too

[Warrick]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

now please, leave me alone.

You're like He-Man, you HAVE the power!

http://www.nzgames.com/forums/profil...ignore&u=25818

[xpandnz]

thank you. i was wanting to do that for sometime

he does post some good stuff every now and then.

[fidgit]

Originally Posted by sv

wonder how the old 'hacked wireless router' gambit will go...

and presumably people's IPs will be collected from public P2P networks etc, so private networks will be OK...

At this point the law doesn't require the ISPs to monitor your traffic themselves - which has been bandied about at various points and would be feasable, kind of, but have a massive impact on the end-users speed. (For example, the block list for websites that have been tagged as illegal, which intercepts and shoots you towards a DIA run server that logs your IP and lets you know that www.sexwithchildren.ru is out of bounds. Of course, actually cleansing the internet of all illegality is only something idiots or Australians would try...). So, depending on the lists being kept up to date, I can presumably pirate away from prying eyes so long as I use PeerBlock, or keep to private trackers (of course, anyone could pretend to not work for an interested company, weasel access to a private server, and bust it wide open.)

As for the unprotected wireless router argument, that's why you get 3 shots before being sanctioned. For sure the warnings you receive would alert you to the possibility and allow for you to be taught about wireless security. You do get a to present yourself to the copyright tribunal so if you somehow kept being hacked, so long as you could prove it you'd probably be expected to assist in helping them catch the actual pirate.

[SumJaun]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

Yup. And the sad thing is about $1 of that $35 actually goes to the musician.

I've seen a few comments from others in support of piracy claiming that these copyright bills are nothing more then the desperate plea from large scale record companies trying to increase profits.

And thats a really valid point.

After studying Popular Music at Uni last year, it was interesting to see how there are Four Major Labels now which then branch off with other label names: sort of like Restaurant Brands using KFC, Starbucks and Pizza Hut as brands.

It gives a false impression that an independent label is actually that..... independent.

I will buy tickets to see artists play live and will buy the CD if its good.

Being an artist yourself, what is your opinion of people infringing on the copyright of your music?

[Warrick]

is he the singer?

[The Edge]

Yep.

[Ab]

Business Model Will Eat Itself

[xpandnz]

Originally Posted by SumJaun

Being an artist yourself, what is your opinion of people infringing on the copyright of your music?

To be fair, that was three years old now.

I haven't posted anything about being in a band on here.....did not see why it is important.

But here is some newer stuff since my band Anything But Federal has come to an end.

One Day At A Time
Somethings Got To Give

With my previous band we had a single on radio, a music video, did a few gigs and stuff but in New Zealand it is real hard to make money. Anyone knows that you have to have your song on rotation on a radio station because the royalties from it are much greater then selling a CD in a store. We tried to sell in stores and online, we were even on iTunes

But since then, I have come to the conclusion, like many artists out there starting off, that I have the tools to do this all myself now. Sure, 15 years ago a record contract would be awesome because you get studio time paid for by a label and what not but that money, to record and produce your album, gets paid back via the money you earn selling it and so forth. Most artists never see a dime of the money that they actually 'earn'. The cars and the cribs you see on TV, thats money in 'advance' which is to be paid back.

So since I got myself a little pro tools rig and a midi keyboard, some cool plugins and a simple SM58, i have been able to get the sounds I want and at the same quality as what I would assume would be studio quality. Save for the drums, the guitars and everything else sound real, because they are. But there are many plugins for MIDI that use real drums samples to create what would sound like a real drummer in a studio.

Now considering that I am in production of my first solo album, I will have by the end of it created the whole thing my self. I will make CDs up with cases and spend money on the covers and labels and I will only sell them at the shows that I play. I hope to make 100% profit, save for the money I want to reclaim on the production of it, which will be shit all really compared to my EP with Anything But Federal.

Now in regards to my thoughts on the copyright of the music......well I dont go into this entirely with money on my mind. I hope that people will like my music. And if they do and come along to the show and buy my cd then thats awesome. If they download it, so be it. I'm giving you links above to some of my stuff without asking for money.

This whole thing, as I said before, is to make more money for the record labels. Thats all.
When you look at all the bankrupt artists now that havent and were not affected by downloading and piracy, you start to see that the artists never really make anything.
What I am doing, and many other indie artists are too, is choosing to avoid getting loans and doing all the music production ourselves. 100% artistic control.

And this is what scares the record industry. Look at cdbaby.com. They sell CDs from artists like me, independent from the big four major labels and we get the money without using a middle man.

[Warrick]

Good Luck.

[sidbo]

/salute

[SumJaun]

Originally Posted by xpandnz

To be fair, that was three years old now.

...

Thanks just thought it was good to let everyone understand a bit of your background in context to your opinion. Interesting how the labels take the financial risk but seem to take the lion's share in revenue. Reality of the business model just does not fit today.

[fidgit]

Originally Posted by SumJaun

Thanks just thought it was good to let everyone understand a bit of your background in context to your opinion. Interesting how the labels take the financial risk but seem to take the lion's share in revenue. Reality of the business model just does not fit today.

And that's the crux of the issue for many people. We know record labels take the majority of money that comes from retailing music (and bands make most of their money from live gigs and selling merchandise, which they do independently of the Label). For a band to get really big though, it still takes marketing. And this is what we're really going to see the end of - the mega bands that defined the last era of music. Already marketing and promotion is spent on either very well established bands, that can be remarketed to be 'cool' (such as Green Day or Korn - isn't it odd that Green Day are more popular now, after two albums that totally abandoned their roots, or why koRn are doing things like Unplugged at this stage of their career), or on completely Label-controlled IP's like Britney Spears or Lady Gaga. The actual musicians starting their trek down the road to Richs'n'Fame barely get a look in from the Big 4 - why risk money on something that's going to make average returns at best, which are going to be eroded by piracy (apparently). So big labels shut up shop, focus attention on the things they wholly own and can pretty much guarantee a ROI, based on marketing. Of course they're going to want to control piracy in this regard - they don't care for the 'if I can download it I'll be more likely to hear it in the first place, so more likely to buy it' school of though - they know what they'll make money back on: the things they tell us to buy with fancy TV ads. They don't need the free advertising most bands get via piracy.

As for movie piracy, which is just as much part of this, there is always the sticky issue of the studios being required by the various guilds (Writers, Musicians, Directors) to do their best to ensure the guild members work is protected. They sign contracts stipulating this. By not pushing for as harsh controls and penalties as possible, they risk those guilds refusing to allow their members to work for them. On the one hand, this'd mean more great indie movies. On the other, pretty much everyone that wants to Make It joins the relevant Holywood guild - the ground work for the guilds controlling who gets to do what is so well established it's phenomenally harder to work if you don't join. So it's probably going to take the movie industry even longer to readjust to a digital reality than the music industry.

[^BITES^]

Stop making a plethora of shit stuff at the same value/rate as stuff that ISNT shit .. and I'll pay for it.

I mean I copy the SHIT out of anything I consider "not worth buying" that includes shit games, shit movies anything, because they are shit and not worht 120/50/30 bucks.

That being said I also own over 300 dvds and buy alot of games from steam/online that I consider worth the coin. I go to the movies when I figure "hey that looks like its going to be alright" ... (but to be honest after Pascal cancelled Tangy fruits ... my backup supply and want to go to the movies is dropping :P)

You flood the market with shit ... then expect joe bloggs public to buy it at full price ...

Get fucked. Assholes.

Viva la Internationally Hosted Torrent Server.

[Reformed_Quint]

I'm not paying money for their shitty albums. If i like them i'll go see them live, otherwise, nah.

$35 for an album, piss off.