NZGames.com Forums
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Go Back   NZGames.com Forums > General > Open Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 29th October 2021, 19:00     #2001
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
No, my friend, the focus is on you right now. Everyone just witnessed you being completely wrong and unable to admit it. My feelings are irrelevant.

I think it's your feelings that are hurt now. A bit of a bruised ego, the sting of embarrassment. Publicly exposed as a phony intellectual that can't even deal with new information and accepts headlines at face value.

But be sure to hold everyone to impossible standards and question the nature of reality while trying to have a discussion about... well fucking anything really. Hopefully we'll forget about it in a day or two, and people will be convinced you're clever again.
__________________
Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand...
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2021, 19:07     #2002
Lightspeed
 
It's your story that I'm wrong. Not all of us are so hung up on being correct all the time.

Questions of epistemology are always relevant, especially so when you're claiming you know better than those who have spent careers developing their knowledge.

But you think for yourself, conveniently getting to skip out on developing any sound base of knowledge, crying persecution at any attempts to test what you know.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2021, 20:30     #2003
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
No, my friend, the focus is on you right now. Everyone just witnessed you being completely wrong and unable to admit it. My feelings are irrelevant.
#selfawarewolves
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2021, 20:46     #2004
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
It's your story that I'm wrong. Not all of us are so hung up on being correct all the time.

Questions of epistemology are always relevant, especially so when you're claiming you know better than those who have spent careers developing their knowledge.

But you think for yourself, conveniently getting to skip out on developing any sound base of knowledge, crying persecution at any attempts to test what you know.

Sssssh, Jeremy. No tears, only dreams.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2021, 22:15     #2005
Lightspeed
 
Something still has you burning, eh Mavis?
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 09:19     #2006
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
#selfawarewolves
He was so close, too.
__________________
ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 10:26     #2007
Nich
 
Remember that influenza you got in Malaysia and you felt like you were going to die in the hotel room? No? Just me? Well, it turns out it may give your immune system a T cell advantage to fight SARS COV2.

https://21a86421-c3e0-461b-83c2-cfe4...afa4b60664.pdf

Quote:
A key finding of our study is that pre‐existing T‐cell immunity to SARS‐CoV‐2 is contributed by TCRs that recognize common viral antigens such as Influenza and CMV, even though the viral epitopes lack sequence identity to the SARS‐CoV‐2 epitopes. This finding is in contrast to multiple published studies in which pre‐existing T‐cell immunity is suggested to arise from shared epitopes between SARS‐CoV‐2 and other common cold‐causing coronaviruses. However, our findings suggest that SARS‐CoV‐2 reactive T‐cells are likely to be present in many individuals because of prior exposure to flu and CMV viruses.
mentioned in this video (14 min mark):
Dr Fleming on Covid cause and solution
https://rumble.com/vmq1g3-dr-fleming...-solution.html

Trigger warning for the above video.
__________________
but what would I know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 19:46     #2008
crocos
 
Random link from some random website: Follow? No thanks.

Rumble.com... lol

But my dislike of your sources aside, I hope that is true - I hope that some of the antivaxers out there actually do have some level of immunity, because I don't actually want them to die or get long covid.

However relying on that immunity without any wider studies is a fools game and if that's your defense against getting the jab, you're less intelligent than I thought.
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 20:15     #2009
Nich
 
Regarding vaccines my message has always been: Don't get the vaccine because a politician says so.
__________________
but what would I know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 20:23     #2010
Lightspeed
 
Is anyone actually doing that tho? Politicians are the ones who facilitate the vaccine, impose the incentives that are necessary.

But... we're taking the vaccine as part of a long, successful history of using vaccines to minimise the impact of infectious disease.

Right?

It's pure contrarianism to resist the vaccine because politicians are involved. How could they not be?
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 20:35     #2011
Nich
 
The promise was that big meanie government will stop being mean when a % of population gets vaccine. Yes, I think a lot of people are getting the vaccine more to make the government stop being a pain in their ass rather than personal health benefits.

Let me be clear that i believe the COVID vaccines do provide personal health benefits to some, and those that need it should get it.
__________________
but what would I know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 21:17     #2012
Lightspeed
 
Well what are our options?

Open everything up, make the vaccine available to everyone who wants it, but do nothing other than tell people it's there?

What are the consequences of that?

Or perhaps somehow get NGOs involved, get them to do the incentivising without the support of the government?

How does that work?

What's the point of the government if not for times when we all need to act as a group?

Is the vaccine about personal health benefits, or about social health benefits? I eat well for personal health benefits. I drive to the road rules for social health benefits. There seems to be a difference.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 21:39     #2013
xor
 
#yolo and open it up. Vaccine is there, take it or leave it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2021, 23:27     #2014
Nich
 
You eat well for social benefits too in that you won't overburden hospitals when your bad diet fucks up your body. In that sense vaccines are a social benefit as well as personal benefit.

Some kind of government-scale organisation element is required, or indeed a cultural requirement. When I think of the opposite of government I think of Ethereum. The culture rewards people who participate in it. It heads in the right direction according to all. Governments during the pandemic have been all about obedience and less about finding harmony withh citizens.

If you don't have harmony, people will hurt themselves and society (stay unvaccinated, defy curfew, spit on nurses, protest), if it spoils the plans of their enemy.

the social contract is obliterated. Government have given us marching orders, then told us we should think of it like "we're all in this together". This when many health ministers have been mountain biking or travelling for the holidays when everyone else should be locked up. It's hard to tolerate this double standard when we should all have a common goal.

VIC government just wants everyone to hurry and double vax. Some even get a call for their second vax after 2 weeks. This is terrible for personal and societal benefit, but great if you're a politician trying to get reelected and you want to say "vaccinated number go up!" . It's a simple automated smart contract (book in 2nd dose after 10 weeks for best public health outcome), but human ego element dicks around with shit and always makes things worse.
__________________
but what would I know?

Last edited by Nich : 30th October 2021 at 23:32.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2021, 09:19     #2015
crocos
 
Got any links to the double-vax calls? Because that's plain idiotic and ignores the science. Even with the pfizer the studies are showing upto 12 weeks is optimal. (Couldn't find original study but here's a couple news articles [Forbes] [Birmingham Uni])

OTOH while searching I found that Vic has reduced the AstraZenica interval to 6 weeks. [Royal Aus College of GPs] in an attempt to balance getting people vaccinated vs increasing case numbers. I note the recommendation is only to shorten for those in COVID hot-spots, but government, clunky, etc.

That being said, the interval is still 6 weeks for Pfizer too - haven't reduced it to the manufacturer's initial 3-week recommendation.
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2021, 10:06     #2016
Nich
 
Robyn got a call to book in 2 weeks after her shot. so no link, just personal experience.
__________________
but what would I know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2021, 13:46     #2017
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
#yolo and open it up. Vaccine is there, take it or leave it.
I reckon the Maori vaccination rate being comparatively low creates an ethical dilemma.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2021, 14:01     #2018
Nich
 
Michael Mina has been banging the drum on rapid tests for over a year. This podcast he explains why they’ve taken so long to get recognised as a great public health tool.

Lex Fridman - Michael Mina
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0IF...c6GTFvKFPXnkCL


He talks of his recommendations at 45 min mark:
- Goal should be to reduce transmission
- Most people will self isolate if empowered with knowledge of their infectivity
- Every house should be given a box of tests (tax payer funded)
- when community has no cases, just test the waste water for traces of virus. If detected, spread news to community that cases are turning up and they should start using their at home tests.
- PCR test takes too long and only identifies super spreaders after the fact, rapid test can deny an infectious person entry to a shop, or gathering
- E-med is a service to verify people are taking an antigen test and have a negative result https://www.emed.com/



Our local pharmacy has nasal swab rapid test available for sale 8th Nov. $14 per single test. Left my number and got them to reserve some for our household.
__________________
but what would I know?

Last edited by Nich : 31st October 2021 at 14:04.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2021, 16:30     #2019
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
I reckon the Maori vaccination rate being comparatively low creates an ethical dilemma.
100mil and counting so far.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 01:00     #2020
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Thumbs up

I think you should all vaccinate your children without waiting to see what happens long term. Please do it for society. Give them heaps of boosters too.

There is obviously no risk with this vaccine, and huge benefits, because otherwise you're gonna die.
__________________
Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand...
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 01:30     #2021
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Way ahead of you, vaxed em as soon as it was available.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 02:16     #2022
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
I think you should all vaccinate your children without waiting to see what happens long term. Please do it for society. Give them heaps of boosters too.

There is obviously no risk with this vaccine, and huge benefits, because otherwise you're gonna die.
You call people afraid, yet you peddle fear. You claim to think for yourself, but parrot the same "we don't know what happens in the long term" line as so many other anti-vaxxers.

Maybe you'll regale us with another tale about how you go your own way.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 09:00     #2023
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Is the vaccine about personal health benefits, or about social health benefits? I eat well for personal health benefits. I drive to the road rules for social health benefits. There seems to be a difference.
It's a siding scale.

I eat well for me. I drive to the road rules for me and others. I don't drink and drive for me, others, as well as the legal implications of not abiding, and I understand that it's a law for the benefit of everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
You call people afraid, yet you peddle fear.
It's not just one or two individuals here, i see it on social media too. People against vaccines, or vaccine mandates, are all about the "Don't let fear control you." one second, and "My research shows this vaccine will make you sterile and kill everyone you love" the next.
__________________
ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 10:56     #2024
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
During a press conference last week, a journalist said that this sounded like Ardern was creating ‘two different classes of people’, the ‘vaccinated [and the] unvaccinated’. Yes, Ardern responded, ‘that is what it is’.
These two classes wouldn’t roughly correspond to “white people” and “brown people” would they?
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 11:57     #2025
The Edge
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Way ahead of you, vaxed em as soon as it was available.
Good job Simon, I'll be doing the same thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 12:03     #2026
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
It's not just one or two individuals here, i see it on social media too. People against vaccines, or vaccine mandates, are all about the "Don't let fear control you." one second, and "My research shows this vaccine will make you sterile and kill everyone you love" the next.
that's just the opposing, yet still delusional, side to people who claim the vaccine stops the spread, has zero side effects, makes you immune, and stops you dying of any cause

Somewhere in the middle is a place where we can find a larger consensus. And less people later regretting their decisions to vax or not vax. If people were primarily convinced to get the vaccine because they were told it stopped them giving COVID to others, they were tricked into getting the vaccine. Likewise, if someone decides not to get the vax because their balls might swell up are also being tricked.

tricking people into getting vaxxed you might say the end justifies the means. The people doing the tricking are treating their audience with contempt. That trust may never be won back.
__________________
but what would I know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 12:12     #2027
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
These two classes wouldn’t roughly correspond to “white people” and “brown people” would they?

Kia Ora, Simon.


They'll also be the ones who get fired from their government jobs. #aroha

nga mihi

Karen
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 12:42     #2028
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
These two classes wouldn’t roughly correspond to “white people” and “brown people” would they?
Yep. The unvaccinated will fall into the 2 types of people

Anti Vax, Anti Govt, anti whatever.
and those where the system doesn't work. Where they don't have the time to worry about this. There first priority is surviving and helping their family survive.

However there was $100m+ being spent on focusing on Maori & Pacifica and helping them.
So with that, it should then mostly only affect the antivax.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 12:47     #2029
Lightspeed
 
Yeah, then once the pandemic is over, we'll leave 'em to rot again. Complain about the gangs they join when society proves unworthy. It's only cause we're all at risk that we're willing to flick a few dollars their way.

Meanwhile, billions upon billions are spent yearly no questions asked on our predominantly white superannuates, thanks to their tendency to actually survive into retirement over their browner peers.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 13:07     #2030
xor
 
Like the 1.9bil that Angry Andrew spent and couldn't account for recently.

You've also got a Maori party that was incapable of recognizing the risk to Maori people in March saying they wouldn't tell Maori people to get the vaccine.

It's almost like the state isn't capable of representing the people.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 13:22     #2031
Lightspeed
 
Or maybe we're incapable of electing a competent government? We're suckers for whoever is telling us they'll put the most money in our pockets?
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 14:17     #2032
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
And less people later regretting their decisions to vax or not vax.
There's a very sad series of posts on social media from people proudly stating their intention to never vax, that no one should ever vax, and you're crazy for doing so. Then posting regretting their decisions to not vaccinate, normally followed up by an obituary from their significant other.
In fact it's become so common that it's become known as the Herman Cain Award, named after the American Republican senator that blew off the virus, then subsequently contracted & died from it.

I'm not seeing anyone regret their decision to vaccinate. I can't say they don't exist, but the former is so much more apparent.


Edit: and the doctors weigh in too.
__________________
ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ

Last edited by Cyberbob : 1st November 2021 at 14:21.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 14:54     #2033
Lightspeed
 
That's one thing that gets me about the pandemic, it's not just the deaths, but how awful the deaths are.

Of course, some will rebuke me for being afraid or for somehow believing what I can't know to be true. That somehow I'm a sheep for even having these things in mind.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 15:30     #2034
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Or maybe we're incapable of electing a competent government? We're suckers for whoever is telling us they'll put the most money in our pockets?
That's just crazy talk. Expecting people to vote for the betterment of everyone.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 15:53     #2035
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberbob
I'm not seeing anyone regret their decision to vaccinate. I can't say they don't exist, but the former is so much more apparent
Yeah "regret" is the wrong word for it. What I meant was "resentful" of how they were talked / coerced into getting the vaccine. Won't be easily forgotten. Yes, it's beneficial for those who get it and suffer no side effects, but the authorities thought you were so dumb that they needed to lie or threaten you in order to get you to do the right thing.
__________________
but what would I know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 16:20     #2036
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
you were so dumb that they needed to lie or threaten you in order to get you to do the right thing.
Story checks out with FAAARRRRR too many people.
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 16:27     #2037
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Or maybe we're incapable of electing a competent government? We're suckers for whoever is telling us they'll put the most money in our pockets?
nice sweeping generalization yet again, Jeremy. Wrong as usual. But sure, let's go with your retarded thought process.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 16:33     #2038
Lightspeed
 
And what are you offering, Mavis of the Vapours? Snide comments and quips? Whatever grand insight you have, you seem unable or unwilling to articulate it.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 16:43     #2039
xor
 
I'd probably start by saying sweeping generalizations don't really help and are probably incorrect, well in your case at least.

4/10 kiwis have less than 1k in their back pocket for emergencies. I'd probably start by looking at that as a problem statement.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2021, 17:00     #2040
Lightspeed
 
You think your characterisations are any more helpful?

4/10 kiwis having less than $1k in their account isn't something that just happened. It's a function of the neolib trickle down economics which are a complete scam.

Money is for people with money. If you're in a hole, we're sure as hell not providing any way out. Our schools are junk, our prisons perpetuate crime, our social services barely exist. If you get raped in NZ, your best hope is the ACC, where your file can be pawed over hundreds of times, long after your claim was settled. All the ladders have been pulled up.

You want to blame the baddies. "Angry Andrew". It's not him. It's us.

I don't know how you sit Mavis, you're so constantly butthurt.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



© Copyright NZGames.com 1996-2022
Site paid for by members (love you guys)