Lundy thread

CCS · 7th October 2013, 23:00

Privy Council quashes Mark Lundy double murder convictions

What say you, nerds? Guilty? Not guilty? Will it be an epic retrial of Bain proportions? Did the cops fuck up once again?

Ab · 7th October 2013, 23:16

Don't know, haven't seen the evidence; Don't know, haven't seen the evidence; yes; Don't know, haven't seen the evidence.

Lightspeed · 7th October 2013, 23:47

All you need to know is in the knewz.

Odysseus · 8th October 2013, 00:44

Must be the last case to go through the Privy council - didn't nose it's open for NZ business any more.

fidgit · 8th October 2013, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odysseus

Must be the last case to go through the Privy council - didn't nose it's open for NZ business any more.

*the* last isn't it? Although if it was surely the gnews would have made more of a fuss about it (assuming anyone noticed...)

Hasn't he just about served a life sentence by this point? Mid 90's right? So he must be nearing the 17 or so year minimum for murder?

CCS · 8th October 2013, 01:23

Jesus fidgit, read the article I linked to. He's spent less time in jail than David Bain!

pxpx · 8th October 2013, 09:59

Nigel Latta will save us from the Lundy-man!

StN · 8th October 2013, 10:13

The doco where Nigel brought up his amatuer theatrical past was LOLtastic.

Interesting bit about the paint chips found in the blood from the head wounds that were the same colour that Lundy painted all his tools. Sounds like they didn't use that evidence last time.

Rince · 8th October 2013, 16:16

Quote:

Cellphone records placed Lundy in the Petone area at 5.38pm and 8.28pm, leaving him less than three hours to drive about 150 kilometres to Palmerston North, kill his wife and daughter, stage a burglary, clean up, run to his car and return south.

so without an accomplice can't see how he could do the round trip, especially in 2000, when we still had abominations like Mackay's Crossing.

StN · 8th October 2013, 16:25

Wouldn't the same cellphone records show him traversing towers all the way up and back - or did he drop out for 3 hours?

pxpx · 8th October 2013, 16:28

That also assumes that the science behind proving the time of death (afaik analysing stomach contents?) is accurate.

Ab · 8th October 2013, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rince

Cellphone records placed A PHONE in the Petone area at 5.38pm and 8.28pm

ftfy

edit - looks like those were actual calls rather than just handset-tower pings. As you were.

fidgit · 8th October 2013, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

Jesus fidgit, read the article I linked to. He's spent less time in jail than David Bain!

Fair enough. He's past the half way point at least...

I don't think I could get from Petone to Palmerston North and back in 3 hours, let alone do anything while I was there. Heck, I allow that much time just for doing that trip in one direction...

Juju · 9th October 2013, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidgit

Fair enough. He's past the half way point at least...

I don't think I could get from Petone to Palmerston North and back in 3 hours, let alone do anything while I was there. Heck, I allow that much time just for doing that trip in one direction...

This is the one thing that always bothered me. If he indeed did that trip at an average speed of 160kmh, then SURELY someone would have rung in saying "there's this guy who is driving like an idiot"?

pxpx · 9th October 2013, 14:00

Where'd you get the 160km/h from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lundy_murders says it was 117/km and 120km/h average speeds.

Juju · 9th October 2013, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by pxpx

Where'd you get the 160km/h from?

My ass.

My question still stands. To do those distances at an average of 117/120, in rush hour traffic, and have *no one* either ringing in at the time or going "yea I remember a guy driving like a muppet on that night" when the case got famous.... i dunno.

CCS · 9th October 2013, 18:23

The time/distance thing, and the brain tissue thing seem to be two things which I thing the prosecution would have trouble with. The computer time/virus thing seems tricky too.

I don't know what other aspects to this there are, such as the paint chips that StN mentioned - which suggests only what the murder weapon was, and not who used it. Apparently it was a tomahawk or small axe.

Ab · 9th October 2013, 18:31

Maintaining an average speed of 120km/h on the stretch of SH1 between Paraparaumu and Porirua as it was in the year 2000 would be quite an achievement.

Ajax · 9th October 2013, 21:47

It's possible that Lundy murdered them much later - like 2am in the morning. The guesstimated time of death was based on the digestion time of the food in the victims' stomachs, and those estimates are not an exact science. Lundy could then have driven back to Petone at his leisure, and the computer thing would be irrelevant.

Ajax · 9th October 2013, 22:16

From here:

Hislop presented an affidavit to the Privy Council last night from leading world expert in forensic pathology, Professor Bernard Knight, who deemed Dr Pang's use of stomach contents to estimate the time of death of Christine and Amber Lundy as "so unreliable as to be of little value".

Dr Pang had noted a distinct "absence of gastric smell" when he examined the bodies, and used this as the basis of his time of death estimate.

Professor Knight questioned how this was an important factor in determining time of death, saying he had never heard of such a suggestion, labelling it "utterly without foundation and little short of ludicrous".

Hislop said experts had said the smell had "nothing to do with the equation", and that Dr Pang's evidence on gastric smell was "misleading" to the jury and "flawed".

Lightspeed · 9th October 2013, 22:21

Geez, Lundy must have been pissed when he still got convicted despite the prosecution being boxed into this bogus time frame.

fidgit · 9th October 2013, 23:28

Indeed if they had discounted the time of death, and said mum and kid died sometime "that evening", wouldn't that have given the prosecution more leeway to suggest he drove up after the second phone call?

Obviously we're getting cherry picked details in the news, but I can't see how all of this couldn't have led to reasonable doubt that he committed the murders.

StN · 10th October 2013, 08:36

FFS they had McDs for tea - that crap will stay around undigested and undecayed for years with a half life older than me.

wugambino · 10th October 2013, 09:28

my lasting memory was his 'grief faint' on the news. You might struggle to keep your speed up though Plimiton to Paekakariki but from there you could easily make up the time.

What was his motivation for killing them? what would anyone else's be? I don't know enough about the case to comment on his guilt but I do know that once the police have set their sights on someone they don't let the facts get in the way!

Pimp-X · 10th October 2013, 09:48

Between Lundy's 'Grief Faint' and Capill's "Post-Punch Whimpering" (both of which the media played over and over and over much to my delight), I think we've got Hilarious Reality TV pretty much done and dusted.

smudge · 10th October 2013, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by wugambino

What was his motivation for killing them? what would anyone else's be? I don't know enough about the case to comment on his guilt but I do know that once the police have set their sights on someone they don't let the facts get in the way!

So I was going to post a link to TVNZ's on demand "Beyond the Darklands" program, where they set out a case for Lundy being a classic narcissist crazy. But it seems TVNZ has removed that episode from their website in the last day or so.

pxpx · 10th October 2013, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by wugambino

What was his motivation for killing them?

The prosecution argued it was for the Life insurance policy on his wife and he had a lot of debts.

pxpx · 10th October 2013, 14:56

The privy council judgement:
http://www.jcpc.gov.uk/decided-cases...4_Judgment.pdf

Ab · 10th October 2013, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by wugambino

my lasting memory was his 'grief faint' on the news. You might struggle to keep your speed up though Plimiton to Paekakariki but from there you could easily make up the time.

By what, doing 150km/h between Petone and Plimmerton in each direction? Plz.

The Edge · 10th October 2013, 19:53

That part of the case I always thought was a bit strange - the timeframe was awfully tight for a 300km return trip, regardless of whether he went through Ngauranga or Judgeford; it's not like either way consists of long, straight roads with low traffic volumes, particularly at that time of the day.

fidgit · 10th October 2013, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Edge

particularly at that time of the day.

No matter how many people argue that you could technically achieve this feat of speedy driving, it doesn't change the fact that he had to have started his drive during peak hour traffic. How was he going that fast at 5:30 in the afternoon and *no one* noticed? :/

]- Volatile -[ · 11th October 2013, 20:51

https://twitter.com/markylundy/statu...33963586686976

BadNova · 17th October 2013, 09:37

and for the second day in a row, NZ Herald has a front page story about Lundy going out to do some shopping.

top notch reporting there guys. good shit.

CCS · 17th October 2013, 13:52

I hanging out for the story on Lundy going down the drive to empty the mail box. That's how you can truly tell who is a psycho killer and who isn't.

StN · 17th October 2013, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

I hanging out for the story on someone pulling up outside his house and playing Talking Heads at full tit on the stereo at volume plus.

cyc · 17th October 2013, 22:53

Don't know whether he is guilty or not and frankly don't really care. What matters to me is how yet again the British law lords have shown themselves to be vastly superior to our judges (Sian Elias excepted) in terms of intellectual ability, the ability to actually deliver a coherent judgment, and actually having some guts.

Ajax · 9th February 2015, 17:15

He's baaaaack.

The prosecution appears to have discarded the bogus time-of-death and Lundy three-hundy stuff (as I detailed above), which should help convict him if they don't cock it up again.

The Edge · 2nd April 2015, 07:09

And he's found guilty, again.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11426663

Lightspeed · 2nd April 2015, 10:21

I'm so glad it's over. I hate listening to jury trials in the news. I laughed when someone said the jury did a thorough and professional job. That's what they said about the last trial I was a juror on when in reality the jury broke a bunch of rules and when it came to deliberation wanted to jump to a verdict and get out of there.

Pimp-X · 2nd April 2015, 12:30

So, that was a 2 million dollar waste of time on the tax payer.

7th October 2013, 23:00	#1
CCS Stunt Pants	Lundy thread Privy Council quashes Mark Lundy double murder convictions What say you, nerds? Guilty? Not guilty? Will it be an epic retrial of Bain proportions? Did the cops fuck up once again? __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

8th October 2013, 00:44	#4
Odysseus Stray Dog	Must be the last case to go through the Privy council - didn't nose it's open for NZ business any more. __________________ Omnis hominis insulas sunt

8th October 2013, 01:23	#6
CCS Stunt Pants	Jesus fidgit, read the article I linked to. He's spent less time in jail than David Bain! __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

9th October 2013, 18:23	#17
CCS Stunt Pants	The time/distance thing, and the brain tissue thing seem to be two things which I thing the prosecution would have trouble with. The computer time/virus thing seems tricky too. I don't know what other aspects to this there are, such as the paint chips that StN mentioned - which suggests only what the murder weapon was, and not who used it. Apparently it was a tomahawk or small axe. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

9th October 2013, 23:28	#22
fidgit Always itchy	Indeed if they had discounted the time of death, and said mum and kid died sometime "that evening", wouldn't that have given the prosecution more leeway to suggest he drove up after the second phone call? Obviously we're getting cherry picked details in the news, but I can't see how all of this couldn't have led to reasonable doubt that he committed the murders. __________________ 4 7 2 3 9 8 5...1 4 2 9 7 8...14 16 22...36°

7th October 2013, 23:16	#2
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Don't know, haven't seen the evidence; Don't know, haven't seen the evidence; yes; Don't know, haven't seen the evidence.

7th October 2013, 23:47	#3
Lightspeed	All you need to know is in the knewz. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

8th October 2013, 09:59	#7
pxpx	Nigel Latta will save us from the Lundy-man!

8th October 2013, 10:13	#8
StN I have detailed files	The doco where Nigel brought up his amatuer theatrical past was LOLtastic. Interesting bit about the paint chips found in the blood from the head wounds that were the same colour that Lundy painted all his tools. Sounds like they didn't use that evidence last time.

8th October 2013, 16:25	#10
StN I have detailed files	Wouldn't the same cellphone records show him traversing towers all the way up and back - or did he drop out for 3 hours?

8th October 2013, 16:28	#11
pxpx	That also assumes that the science behind proving the time of death (afaik analysing stomach contents?) is accurate.

9th October 2013, 14:00	#15
pxpx	Where'd you get the 160km/h from? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lundy_murders says it was 117/km and 120km/h average speeds.

9th October 2013, 18:31	#18
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Maintaining an average speed of 120km/h on the stretch of SH1 between Paraparaumu and Porirua as it was in the year 2000 would be quite an achievement.

9th October 2013, 21:47	#19
Ajax Architeuthis	It's possible that Lundy murdered them much later - like 2am in the morning. The guesstimated time of death was based on the digestion time of the food in the victims' stomachs, and those estimates are not an exact science. Lundy could then have driven back to Petone at his leisure, and the computer thing would be irrelevant.

9th October 2013, 22:16	#20
Ajax Architeuthis	From here: Hislop presented an affidavit to the Privy Council last night from leading world expert in forensic pathology, Professor Bernard Knight, who deemed Dr Pang's use of stomach contents to estimate the time of death of Christine and Amber Lundy as "so unreliable as to be of little value". Dr Pang had noted a distinct "absence of gastric smell" when he examined the bodies, and used this as the basis of his time of death estimate. Professor Knight questioned how this was an important factor in determining time of death, saying he had never heard of such a suggestion, labelling it "utterly without foundation and little short of ludicrous". Hislop said experts had said the smell had "nothing to do with the equation", and that Dr Pang's evidence on gastric smell was "misleading" to the jury and "flawed".

9th October 2013, 22:21	#21
Lightspeed	Geez, Lundy must have been pissed when he still got convicted despite the prosecution being boxed into this bogus time frame. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

10th October 2013, 08:36	#23
StN I have detailed files	FFS they had McDs for tea - that crap will stay around undigested and undecayed for years with a half life older than me.

10th October 2013, 09:28	#24
wugambino Electric Boogaloo	my lasting memory was his 'grief faint' on the news. You might struggle to keep your speed up though Plimiton to Paekakariki but from there you could easily make up the time. What was his motivation for killing them? what would anyone else's be? I don't know enough about the case to comment on his guilt but I do know that once the police have set their sights on someone they don't let the facts get in the way!

10th October 2013, 09:48	#25
Pimp-X Drunken Annoying Superhero Bastard	Between Lundy's 'Grief Faint' and Capill's "Post-Punch Whimpering" (both of which the media played over and over and over much to my delight), I think we've got Hilarious Reality TV pretty much done and dusted. __________________ If there is one movement I could get behind in this world, it would be the discrimination and abuse of fucking idiots.

10th October 2013, 14:56	#28
pxpx	The privy council judgement: http://www.jcpc.gov.uk/decided-cases...4_Judgment.pdf

10th October 2013, 19:53	#30
The Edge	That part of the case I always thought was a bit strange - the timeframe was awfully tight for a 300km return trip, regardless of whether he went through Ngauranga or Judgeford; it's not like either way consists of long, straight roads with low traffic volumes, particularly at that time of the day.

11th October 2013, 20:51	#32
]- Volatile -[	https://twitter.com/markylundy/statu...33963586686976 __________________ 2 peanuts walked into a bar.... one was asalted.

17th October 2013, 09:37	#33
BadNova	and for the second day in a row, NZ Herald has a front page story about Lundy going out to do some shopping. top notch reporting there guys. good shit.

17th October 2013, 13:52	#34
CCS Stunt Pants	I hanging out for the story on Lundy going down the drive to empty the mail box. That's how you can truly tell who is a psycho killer and who isn't. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

17th October 2013, 22:53	#36
cyc Objection!	Don't know whether he is guilty or not and frankly don't really care. What matters to me is how yet again the British law lords have shown themselves to be vastly superior to our judges (Sian Elias excepted) in terms of intellectual ability, the ability to actually deliver a coherent judgment, and actually having some guts.

9th February 2015, 17:15	#37
Ajax Architeuthis	He's baaaaack. The prosecution appears to have discarded the bogus time-of-death and Lundy three-hundy stuff (as I detailed above), which should help convict him if they don't cock it up again.

2nd April 2015, 07:09	#38
The Edge	And he's found guilty, again. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11426663

2nd April 2015, 10:21	#39
Lightspeed	I'm so glad it's over. I hate listening to jury trials in the news. I laughed when someone said the jury did a thorough and professional job. That's what they said about the last trial I was a juror on when in reality the jury broke a bunch of rules and when it came to deliberation wanted to jump to a verdict and get out of there. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

2nd April 2015, 12:30	#40
Pimp-X Drunken Annoying Superhero Bastard	So, that was a 2 million dollar waste of time on the tax payer. __________________ If there is one movement I could get behind in this world, it would be the discrimination and abuse of fucking idiots.