Random Politics

[[WanG] Wandarah]

Fuck chubby is a wierdo.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Ab

fixed

and yet still irrelevant.
you guys(the non-lefties) keep trying to return to an argument that no-one here is having.
WE DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT GEOFF.
GEOFF FTL.

geddit?
the 'left speakers' here, i would suggest to you are green(or lefter) supporters.
we question the entire basis of your economic and social world-view,and your whole 'labour vs national' thing is kind've stupid.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by [WanG] Wandarah

Fuck chubby is a wierdo.

ive had better.

[CCS]

Who is this Geoff you speak of?

[Lightspeed]

There's a small union based protest on lower Queen St right now. They seem to be protesting tax cuts for the rich paid for by service cuts.

[CCS]

Oh? What's paying for the tax cuts that everybody else got?

[Lightspeed]

You should go down an ask them. You might get on the TV.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by CCS

Oh? What's paying for the tax cuts that everybody else got?

belligerently stupid 'fo lyfe.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by [WanG] Wandarah

Fuck chubby is a wierdo.

He'd seem pretty normal in a communist country. He'll need to move to ever be happy. But I expect this isn't going to happen since he knows full well that his natural position would be in the worker class and the life experience of those at the bottom of the communist pile is truly terrible.

[cyc]

Chubby, just try to occasionally make some sense. Pretty please....

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

But I expect this isn't going to happen since he knows full well that his natural position would be in the worker class and the life experience of those at the bottom of the communist pile is truly terrible.

classic.
enough snippets of truth to present a veneer of reason- but so many demonstratively wrong presumptions of truth and convenient ignorance of obvious questions as to make it quaintly childish.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by chubby

belligerently stupid 'fo lyfe.

And why do you say that? Surely you don't actually believe that only the rich got tax cuts?

[chubby]

surely you're not so ignorant as to insist the tax increases we were all 'even handedly' given at the same time MORE than negated said tax cuts for most(read: 40k and under) of the population.

[CCS]

What I'm saying is that everybody got a tax cut. So who paid for the tax cut that the protestors got?

[chubby]

yeah.
the point youre making(yawn) is a fair one mr semantic asshole-
but the actual point is that the relative 'rebalanceing'... effects those worst (of course) hit by the invisible tax cuts
also, those people are protesting cuts to services,such as rape crisis- that they were not consulted as to the worthiness of.
the non-existent economic benefits of more than 6Bn worth of road expenditure are clearly explained in the govts own report- yet that PUBLIC MONEY was never up for debate.

does your point have anything other than pedantry behind it?

[CCS]

Lol, this is nothing to do with semantics. I don't think you even know what that word is.

My point is that those protesting had their tax cut funded by the same thing that funded the tax cut of the rich. That's the only point I was trying to make. Thanks for finally agreeing with me.

BTW, this consulting you're talking about was done in November 2008.

[chubby]

with your love for precision in language you should check wording in the leadup to that 'consulting' with examples given by protesting parties.
think what 'front line' means.

oh, and 'finally agreeing'?!.... your in an empty room guy.

[adonis]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

He'd seem pretty normal in a communist country. He'll need to move to ever be happy. But I expect this isn't going to happen since he knows full well that his natural position would be in the worker class and the life experience of those at the bottom of the communist pile is truly terrible.

Except of course, there are no communist countries. The roots of the word "Communism" are the same for the word "Commune" or "Community". Existing countries that refer to themselves as "Communist" are run by a either a dictator or a select group of individuals. The governments of these countries are basically very large, multifaceted corporations that own and control everything. So it's more accurate to describe them as systems of "State capitalism" rather than "Communism", considering the community has no real say in how their country is run. The owners of capital, whether that is a dictator or a political party, call all the shots.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by chubby

with your love for precision in language you should check wording in the leadup to that 'consulting' with examples given by protesting parties.
think what 'front line' means.

Care to elaborate on what the fuck you're talking about? I mean, you're barely literate ffs.

[madmaxii]

Fuck me Adonis, that's semantics taken to the extreme.

[Lightspeed]

So it's not true?

[adonis]

If people are going to throw words like that around, the least they can do is understand what they actually mean. Calling the Greens communist doesn't advance the discussion any more than calling National fascist.

[madmaxii]

If that comment was directed at me then I will give you the same description of semantics that you would have found if you had taken the time to do a little research. From http://en.wikipedia.org:

In linguistics, semantics is the subfield that is devoted to the study of meaning, as inherent at the levels of words, phrases, sentences, and larger units of discourse (referred to as texts). The basic area of study is the meaning of signs, and the study of relations between different linguistic units: homonymy, synonymy, antonymy, polysemy, paronyms, hypernymy, hyponymy, meronymy, metonymy, holonymy, linguistic compounds. A key concern is how meaning attaches to larger chunks of text, possibly as a result of the composition from smaller units of meaning. Traditionally, semantics has included the study of sense and denotative reference, truth conditions, argument structure, thematic roles, discourse analysis, and the linkage of all of these to syntax.

[adonis]

I meant words like "communism"

[MrTTTT]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

But I expect this isn't going to happen since he knows full well that his natural position would be in the worker class and the life experience of those at the bottom of the communist pile is truly terrible.

In terms of GDP per capita, mortality, and other indicators of quality of life, their lot was actually better under communism than it is now (under capitalism)... The USSR/CIS that is.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by MrTTTT

In terms of GDP per capita, mortality, and other indicators of quality of life, their lot was actually better under communism than it is now (under capitalism)... The USSR/CIS that is.

That's like claiming that cancer patients who are treated with drugs that make them feel much sicker than the disease in its early stages are worse off than those who receive no treatment. This is true but the observation is not really that useful in terms of deciding whether treatment should occur.

[MrTTTT]

So you're assuming those economies will 'get better', which we don't really know yet. You sound like the IMF/WB 'in the long-term it'll be alright!', and then 30 years later it's still not alright...

Shit I just realized it's already 20 years later in those countries. They're still fucked. When does the cancer get cured???

[Ab]

Originally Posted by MrTTTT

In terms of GDP per capita, mortality, and other indicators of quality of life, their lot was actually better under communism than it is now (under capitalism)... The USSR/CIS that is.

Living under communism in the USSR probably was better than living under capitalism. For those thirty million or so who didn't manage to remain living, well I guess they aren't part of our frame of reference are they?

[MrTTTT]

Originally Posted by Ab

Living under communism in the USSR probably was better than living under capitalism. For those thirty million or so who didn't manage to remain living, well I guess they aren't part of our frame of reference are they?

It sucks being ruthlessly killed by a dictator. But not part of today's reference are all those that are essentially 'dying' out of poverty (i.e. increase in infant mortality, TB, massive decline in life expectancy).
I'm not saying communism was great there. I'm just saying capitalism is shit as well, and probably shitter based on the stats.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by MrTTTT

So you're assuming those economies will 'get better', which we don't really know yet.

yes.
he is.
he would describe it as 'an indisputable fact'.. or something equally meaningful.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by MrTTTT

So you're assuming those economies will 'get better', which we don't really know yet.

No. I'm simply observing it's several decades too early to tell and your observing things are worse from some perspectives doesn't imply the medicine shouldn't have been taken.

[MrTTTT]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

No. I'm simply observing it's several decades too early to tell and your observing things are worse from some perspectives doesn't imply the medicine shouldn't have been taken.

Several decades too early??? South Korea developed from a country shittier than most African nations (real GDP was worse than Ghana's in 1960s) to basically a developed country in 20 odd years. Any prescription on policy that needs more than 30 years obviously is not the ideal...

Medicine should have been taken, but USSR/CIS took the wrong medicine (or, were forced to swallow poison, as it were).

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by CCS

My point is that those protesting had their tax cut funded by the same thing that funded the tax cut of the rich. That's the only point I was trying to make. Thanks for finally agreeing with me.

The tax cuts for people at or below the median income were funded by the increase in GST, which left them no better off. The tax cuts for people well above the median were not offset by the GST increase, and are funded by borrowing instead.

[CCS]

Oh really? The govt divided it up as specifically as that? And you've got proof I take it?

[Ab]

Originally Posted by MrTTTT

I'm not saying communism was great there. I'm just saying capitalism is shit as well, and probably shitter based on the stats.

What is shitter than the deaths of 30 million people? A housing bubble? Corporate pay packets?

[ZoSo]

Icing on the Trump bashing cake.
http://foknewschannel.com/photo-of-t...or-may-1-2011/

[crocos]

Originally Posted by ZoSo

Icing on the Trump bashing cake.
http://foknewschannel.com/photo-of-t...or-may-1-2011/

LOL

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by CCS

Oh really? The govt divided it up as specifically as that? And you've got proof I take it?

Nothing to do with how the government divvies it up, it's based on how much of each persons pay packet went on tax before and after the change. Google the graphs if you're really interested.

[CCS]

Sounds like horseshit to me.

[ZoSo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_856083.html

Bin Laden dead apparently (Not that it matters really)