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28th May 2011, 15:35 | #1 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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That motherfucker just won't die
Draco pointed me to this:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO110...rous-wedge.htm An Orewa church hall? How can he step across the threshold? And all the crucifixes. Shouldn't he just burst into flame? |
28th May 2011, 23:31 | #2 |
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Holy crap I just read his whole speech and WINSTON IS MY IDOL. I fully agree with his rage against the separatist bullshit.
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28th May 2011, 23:39 | #3 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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That from the guy who held the balance of power after the 1996 election because his party won all 5 of the Maori seats in parliament.
Now he's out on his arse, so it's all "ONE LAW FOR ALL! NO SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR MAORIS!" |
28th May 2011, 23:50 | #4 |
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I won't deny he may be a hypocrite. But taking the speech in isolation of everything else the man has said/done, it makes sense to me!
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29th May 2011, 01:07 | #5 |
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Sorry to burst your bubble but the douche will say anything for a free lunch, except its not really free... you'll be paying for it indirectly.
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29th May 2011, 10:06 | #6 |
Love, Actuary
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This is simply playing the game that MMP requires. He has a very good chance of getting in again. If he gets in and it's a marginal situation where the left could form a coalition then this guy is effectively the prime minster; not in name of course but in terms of calling the shots that matter.
MMP is explicitly designed to get lunatics into parliament. It is very efficient at doing this. Given that the two sensible parties tend to hold a similar number of votes each (long term position - short term labour is fucked) this means that MMP is explicitly designed to ensure lunatics hold the balance of power most of the time. I didn't vote for MMP the first time around and I'll certainly be voting to have the system changed to something more sensible. STV was my preference last time but to be honest first-past-the-post has merit versus the status-quo and lets be honest STV is too complicated for most voters. |
29th May 2011, 10:47 | #7 | |
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Or are you using hyperbole because of the weak position of your views?
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Stay shook. No sook. |
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29th May 2011, 13:58 | #8 | |
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I do agree that STV would be my preferred alternative method but I believe that adjusting the threshold would help to resolve some issues with our current MMP system. |
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29th May 2011, 14:28 | #9 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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I've voted in a few STV elections here in Oz and it isn't perfect. But I'll take it over the MMP disaster in NZ that's for sure.
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29th May 2011, 15:30 | #10 |
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Don't blame the inadequacy of the two major parties on the polling system. If one or two 'natural fit' parties (e.g. National + ACT; Labour + Greens) gets more than 50% of the vote there is no need for backroom deals for odd couples like we have now or Winnie the Poop in bed with Labour.
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29th May 2011, 16:02 | #11 |
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I don't see why people expect our political system to go from the logical conclusion of FPP (two major parties) straight into the best outcome of MMP in a couple of election cycles.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
29th May 2011, 16:33 | #12 |
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True. MMP has been great in strengthening NZ's democracy and it's no longer such an old boys club.
http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/civi...overnment.html http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/civi...overnment.html Though some tweaking would be great. Perhaps candidates that have won a constituency still need their party to pass the 5% threshold to bring in list MPs.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
29th May 2011, 22:37 | #13 |
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MMP makes shit more entertaining!!
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30th May 2011, 09:11 | #14 | |
Love, Actuary
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laboor finds itself in an awkward position. There are not enough voters left alive that want government any further left than it currently is. Worse there are several parties fighting over this rapidly shrinking demographic. National is occupying the center-left ground very successfully and looks like it has comprehensively taken over. Perhaps labour needs to move quite a long way toward the right where there are plenty of voters not well served? A party between National and act would work quite well, and it's not as if labour is really any different to National at the moment except that they fired years ago all of their excuse for talent and are thus truly fucked. |
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30th May 2011, 21:25 | #15 |
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If we're so far to the left GT, what countries are further to the right than us, and for what reason?
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30th May 2011, 21:52 | #16 |
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The purpose of having a democratically elected government is to represent the population as closely as possible, even the "lunatics". If there is a problem with our current system, it has to do with specifics rather than proportionality.
The problem isn't that it's too proportional. The fact that people are even considering using less proportional systems like SM instead of tweaking the rules around supply and confidence, thresholds etc, shows that these people consider democracy to be something that is just an inconvenience for them. But then, democratic representation does favour the left, so I guess it's too be expected. Personally I'd scrap electorate seats completely. Have a party based STV vote with a threshold or 2-3% to determine central government. Overhaul all local representative systems with the same system and give them some protection from central government decisions. Why do we have local MP's and mayors? Local government in this country is a joke, strengthen it and you remove the need for electorate based representation in central government. Tweak the requirements for supply and confidence so that IF a small party tries to wag the dog too much it can't bring the entire government down. |
31st May 2011, 12:37 | #17 |
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But the lunatics, adonis, the lunatics! You know, the bulk of the people who don't want power and wealth to be controlled be a minority. We can't have crazy fucks like that getting a say!
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Stay shook. No sook. |
31st May 2011, 23:03 | #18 |
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It's too late, this guy (I forget his name) told me MMP was explicitly designed to get them into government. I read it on the internet it has to be true.
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1st June 2011, 09:49 | #19 | |
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1st June 2011, 18:29 | #20 |
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Stay shook. No sook. |
2nd June 2011, 10:43 | #21 |
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Bring back OPTRTA - One Party To Rule Them All -- Dictatorship. I'll put my hand up for El Dictator, who's with me?
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xyf |
3rd June 2011, 01:04 | #22 | |||||
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Parties actual political leanings is here. It may not be completely accurate but, as it's a constant measure, gives a better idea than just stating your opinion. Last edited by Draco T Bastard : 3rd June 2011 at 01:05. |
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3rd June 2011, 23:57 | #23 |
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^^ sounds like a bunch of opinions without justifications? Prove me wrong (im sure).
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xyf |
4th June 2011, 01:20 | #24 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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4th June 2011, 01:30 | #25 | |
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Stay shook. No sook. |
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4th June 2011, 01:58 | #26 | |
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Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية |
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4th June 2011, 09:12 | #27 |
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Greedy Old Perverts?
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
4th June 2011, 09:12 | #28 |
Love, Actuary
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Referring to the quote of Draco and so not sullying myself with his actual post.
The analysis is flawed in several ways. Its use is really only to try to fool those who are clever enough to know what a graph is but not clever enough to understand how easy it is to deliberately mislead a naive audience using such a tool. For example, there is no notion of potential scale (and so the reality of the variance is distorted - deliberately in this case I imagine). The exclusion of parties from other countries allows the cheating that has occurred in representation of the data. Putting the US and Cuba on there would improve the situation dramatically and would be a very low effort activity. Of course the graph would become very boring with most of the NZ parties squashed around very close to the center. Seeing something for 2011 would be nice too. Political parties and peoples' views of political parties have been changing very quickly; contemporaneity of data for today is important. Everything Draco posts is biased to support his extreme left point of view and so I have to assume that his quoting something out of date is a very deliberate act on his part. It surely has not have passed attention that it's always members of the extreme left (20% of NZ's population of whom seem to post in these threads) who put forward this nonsense. Perhaps because there is an audience for them here whereas out in the real world there isn't. If only they realised that it's a comedy-central audience with the odd tomato thrown to start them up again once they've got boring. |