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26th August 2019, 21:44 | #5441 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Article entitled “highest rate since records began”: 13.67 deaths per 100,000ppl in 2018-19
Ministry of Health, suicide rate 20 years ago: 15.1 deaths per 100,000ppl in 1998-99 https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015 Me: called it |
26th August 2019, 21:54 | #5442 |
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Yeah... that's... a newspaper's editorial decision is the thing to focus on here.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
26th August 2019, 22:09 | #5443 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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MoH:
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26th August 2019, 22:15 | #5444 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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All jesting aside, read:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12262081 ...and count the occurrences of the words male, men, or boys. |
26th August 2019, 22:56 | #5445 |
Stunt Pants
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Ah, but it does mention Maori and Pasific suicides. Hencewhy colonialism.
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner? |
26th August 2019, 23:06 | #5446 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Kinda hard to fix a problem when it's politically incorrect to even acknowledge that it exists.
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27th August 2019, 02:06 | #5447 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Article proclaims: 685 deaths from suicide in the past year
Article doesn't mention: 498 were male |
27th August 2019, 08:27 | #5448 |
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I reckon New Zealand's masculine culture has quite a toxic element and unfortunately 'right-wing' ideology like personal responsibility, individualism & minimal Govt. intervention contributes to the problem as it results in men internalising society's message that any problem is their fault and that asking for help is weak.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
27th August 2019, 12:25 | #5449 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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What’s the male suicide rate like in countries that aren’t NZ?
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27th August 2019, 12:34 | #5450 |
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I wonder if the woke left's demonisation of 'cis' males also contributes?
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27th August 2019, 15:06 | #5451 |
Stunt Pants
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Telling males that their masculinity is toxic probably doesn't help.
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner? |
27th August 2019, 15:29 | #5452 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Quote:
18.5 deaths per 100,000ppl in 1927-29. Our current suicide rate isn't even close to our highest rate ever. |
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27th August 2019, 15:30 | #5453 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Quote:
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27th August 2019, 15:37 | #5454 |
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It's not telling males that their masculinity is toxic, it's saying that elements of it can be. Obviously it needs explained in a way that doesn't come across as 'your a man therefore you're toxic'. For example showing emotion or asking for help is not a weakness. Cultural masculine norms DO see it as a weakness and this is toxic (harmful) to men.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
27th August 2019, 15:38 | #5455 |
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It's not about men. It's about vulnerability.
If you've found yourself vulnerable in recent years, you've found yourself fucked. Men are in an awkward spot, because they're both the least and most vulnerable group. But it's the general gearing down of support for people in need that we're seeing the consequences of.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
27th August 2019, 16:53 | #5456 | |
Stunt Pants
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No, it's not even parts of masculinity that are toxic. If anything, it's that some people (arseholes) are saying that some arsehole behaviours are what is expected of a man. That's not the fault of men or masculinity. It's the fault of arsehole people who justify their arsehole attitudes by blaming their arsehole concept masculinity. To be more precise - the problem is arseholes (toxic individuals) - not masculinity. Don't tell people their masculinity is toxic. Tell them that certain behaviours or attitudes (ones that can come from people of either gender) are shitty.
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner? |
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27th August 2019, 18:34 | #5457 |
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Terms like toxic masculinity emerge as a result of people attempting to grapple with and communicate complex phenomena. Phenomena people are compelled to grapple with because of the distress they generate.
Inside the institutions they emerge from, these terms are typically held carefully, with an appreciation that they're attempts to communicate rather than descriptions of reality. Terms that really capture something eventually enter public consciousness where they're stretched and distorted beyond their original form, take on a life of their own. Kind of a no-win situation. But really it's just another part of the dynamic. Certainly not a reason to stop grappling.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
27th August 2019, 20:51 | #5458 | |
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A recent example where there’s still a long way to go is how society views male victims of spousal abuse. It's not just some arseholes it's a gradual change where as a society we go from laughing at a weak man who can't handle his woman to acknowledging it as a legitimate form of abuse. Also we should definitely be telling people that their masculinity can be harmful, because by helping them challenge these ideas they have about what they can and can't do you're helping them deal with their inner conflicts over these social expectations eg it's okay to ask for help if you're depressed.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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27th August 2019, 23:54 | #5459 |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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Is anyone here actually willing to discuss their own depression or attempted suicide?
If you haven't personally battled depression, then it's likely hard for you to relate or contribute meaningfully beyond speculation. If you have, but can't/won't talk about it, then you're perpetuating the idea that men can't talk about it (+ Pepsi). At the risk of emasculating myself, I'll admit that I do suffer from depression from time to time, usually triggered or worsened by alcohol. You are all probably familiar with me drinking. I've never felt so bad that I wanted to end my life (although I've been mortified), and I prefer to self medicate with weed and the occasional dance party. I've never felt the need or understood the point, personally, of calling a hotline and talking to a stranger (here's a forum full of them!), and I don't see that it's the government's fault or responsibility for how I feel (so I find it a bit weird that we're having a suicide discussion in a National party thread). I do feel that I alone am responsible for making the choices that contribute to my well being, but I am fortunate enough that I have wonderful parents, a great boss, and a few really good friends so I do have support if I need it. I'm not sure that a person who has/feels like they have no-one that cares about them will gain much by talking to a stranger as opposed to actually finding a friend who does care. I'm not a fan of anti-depressants, and I have never been so bad that I felt I needed them (because weed), but I assume some of you have been on them at some point. So, having said that, don't blame or rely on the government too much - obviously we have government funded doctors, medicine and counselling already. If you are having issues, get sober, self reflect, appreciate what you do have, and actually talk about. If anyone else wants to talk about their own experience, then that is probably 100x more useful than blaming the transweirdo/social justice feminist/race war crew for forcing their own experiences into the spotlight and making everything the fault of white men and their colonialism (I've never personally taken over a country or employed a man instead of a woman only to have to pay him more). When it comes to suicide, we've been told over and over - talk about it. Maybe it's actually that easy?
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
28th August 2019, 00:04 | #5460 | ||
Stunt Pants
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Quote:
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner? |
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28th August 2019, 00:47 | #5461 |
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I would argue one problem is some people only have energy for these discussions when they feel they have something to defend. "Not ALL men!"
Otherwise they're disinterested in the discussion, in reflecting on a variety of perspectives. The only thing they have to say is "not me!"
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Stay shook. No sook. |
28th August 2019, 09:42 | #5462 | |
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CCS – you’re just redefining the standard definition of masculinity and how it’s developed (i.e to it not being constructed based on social, cultural, and contextual norms) and then arguing from there.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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28th August 2019, 12:33 | #5465 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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28th August 2019, 19:37 | #5466 |
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I think we just need to agree shit is hard out there. If we all had a bit more compassion and generosity we could all go a lot further.
Clutching to what we have barely serves us in the short term. We're fucked in the long term.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
28th August 2019, 21:52 | #5467 | |
Stunt Pants
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No I'm not. I'm drawing a distinction between masculinity as it has always been and this woke concept of 'toxic masculinity'. You're trying to conflate the two.
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner? |
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28th August 2019, 23:18 | #5468 |
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I’ve said that not all masculinity is toxic. I think that we can agree that things like ‘men don’t cry' and ‘asking for help is weak’ are societal expectations of men that are harmful. Again, these types of toxic traits traditionally associated with masculinity do not mean that men are toxic or that masculinity is de facto toxic.
Also masculinity is generally understood by most of academia to be socially constructed so I’m not sure what you mean by ‘as it has always been’.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
29th August 2019, 09:06 | #5469 | |
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More of the burn the house down approach from National.
Police Association says National playing politics with gun laws Quote:
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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29th August 2019, 17:01 | #5470 |
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Yep, its a shame.
its probably more detrimental for Bridges to talk about it like that. We support this and that we think it is a bipartisan issue that needs to be dealt with. Because then his supporters will think he is weak because he is working with Labour. |
31st August 2019, 16:15 | #5471 | |
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Quote:
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Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية |
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12th September 2019, 11:49 | #5472 |
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ |
28th September 2019, 19:49 | #5473 |
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A vote for National next election is a vote to ignore climate change. Fight me.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
29th September 2019, 15:47 | #5474 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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I'm out of the loop on this one. What are National's climate policies?
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29th September 2019, 15:48 | #5475 |
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I'm not sure about policy, but it's their practice to sneer at climate change activism.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
29th September 2019, 21:59 | #5476 | |
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Kids will grow out of climate change activism when the world doesn't end - Judith Collins
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__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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30th September 2019, 02:18 | #5477 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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dog whistling?
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30th September 2019, 07:54 | #5478 |
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Behind her patronising young people is climate denial for the boomers
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
30th September 2019, 14:39 | #5479 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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EVERYONE patronises young people. Because they're young people.
BTW there were two people getting interviewed there. Quote:
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2nd October 2019, 13:15 | #5480 |
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Only one interviewee is telling us our fears about climate change are unfounded.
On a scale of distasteful things in the world right now the Thurnberg circus doesn't even bear mention. It's more desperate and sad really. Except instead of a forlorn hope for unrequited love, it's a future worth living in we're having to accept won't be ours.
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Stay shook. No sook. |