Matrix Reloaded * WITH SPOILERS* (you are warned) - Page 13

Fred · 27th May 2003, 15:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Rips
all you did was support my argument with that reply......or whatever it was.

Oh dear, it seems you missed the point. It always amsues me to have someone, like you in this thread, proclaim that someone can't say something because we have 'free speech'. It is an oxymoronic statement.

To restate just as much as Chaoswulf is allowed to succinctly express disgruntlement with the film, Spoon1 is equally entitled to comment that such expression this late into the thread is a retrograde step for the discussion. Capiche?

That is all I am going to say as you seem intent on starting a flame war with your assinine comparisons to a Nazi totalitarian state and I am trying not to feed any more trolls at the moment.

MadMax · 27th May 2003, 15:04

even though we have been shown the fields? Even though those that wake from it have terminals on their body?

Fred · 27th May 2003, 15:07

Quote:

Originally posted by MadMax
even though we have been shown them?

My theory is the fields exist and power is indeed collected but that isn't their purpose. The energy investment required to harvest power off a human could be much more profitably used in other ways by the machines with a much better return of power. Indeed the energy put in would always be somewhat less than that which you recover.

If it was about energy alone the machines could easily obviate a whole messy step.

MadMax · 27th May 2003, 15:18

^ but its all theoretical. there is too much depth and story behind the whole human harvesting. Or are you saying that 20 odd minutes worth of material in the original movie is going to get blown away by a single sentence in the third movie?

ChaosWulf · 27th May 2003, 15:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Rips
Why the fuk should she not be able to post her opinion in peace??? No one here has the right to ask for that be deleted. Theres nothing illegal or offensive in it.

Rips - people fear that they may be made to look a fool. Spoon1 and Fred are two of those who have contributed heartily to this discussion, both weilding theories left, right and centre as to the deeper inner meaning of this vast and glorious movie.

Much the same as people did after watching Star Wars: A Phantom Menace, if I recall correctly, trying possibly to justify with flailing intellect the slightly hollow feeling in the pit of their stomach as they walked away from the movie theatre, with 3 hours less of their life, and $12.50 lighter in the wallet, but otherwise unmoved.

While it is not my intention to offend, I tend to call a spade a spade - and in my honest opinion, the movie (while an enjoyable waste of time) was no more intellectual than The Little Mermaid. Which, incidentally, raised many questions about life in other worlds, and the grass always being greener on the other side ...

And Spoon1 has every right to ask for it to be deleted, and who knows? Maybe Simon will look down upon His ant farm from his benevolent heights and grant him this one?

Mabd · 27th May 2003, 15:35

Don't you dis the Little Mermaid, CW, or we be fightin'.

Sebastian is my hero.

ChaosWulf · 27th May 2003, 15:37

Mabd - wouldn't dream of it.

Sebastian is cool, but I'm rather partial to Ursula .. can't think of why

Mabd · 27th May 2003, 15:40

LoL. You don't have cats called Flotsam and Jetsam, do you?

ChaosWulf · 27th May 2003, 15:43

I'm not really a cat person .. however one day I do intend to own two pet ferrets by those names

Poor unfortunate souls ...

Simon · 27th May 2003, 15:47

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaosWulf
Maybe Simon will look down upon His ant farm from his benevolent heights and grant him this one?

"Benevolent heights"? Sorry dear, that sounds a bit too Judeo-Christian for me. I think the approach of the Greek/Roman mythos would somehow be more fitting. Although "from his petty, selfish, philandering heights" doesn't really have the same ring to it.

Anyway kids, keep it on-topic please, if you want to drag me down from Olympus please take it to the Feedback forum, or somewhere other than this thread

Uncle Gus · 27th May 2003, 15:50

Nah, I don't think it quiet works, eh. Australia doesn't have any mountains worth spit. A few hills maybe, that's about it.

Fred · 27th May 2003, 15:52

Quote:

Originally posted by MadMax
^ but its all theoretical. there is too much depth and story behind the whole human harvesting. Or are you saying that 20 odd minutes worth of material in the original movie is going to get blown away by a single sentence in the third movie?

Essentially, yes. Much the same way the Architect conversation has changed entirely the way we think about Neo, Trinity and Morpheus I fully expect the big reveal in the third film to be that the Matrix is in no way, shape or form a power farm.

The humans have been misled.

The 'power' collected is done simply to defray the huge energy cost required to make the matrix work and keep it's inhabitants alive. It suits the machine's purpose to keep the humans thinking that is all the matrix is about.

Cyberbob · 27th May 2003, 15:55

i still say it's got something to do with the disc that he gave the guy at the door, at the very start of the first movie.

MadMax · 27th May 2003, 16:05

I still think that the Architect is a fraud. Almost every (worthy) post here has been along the lines of: blah blah blah but the Architect said xyz so that kinda kills that idea. Or blah blah blah doesn't make sence cause the Architect said xyz.

Raptor · 27th May 2003, 16:08

Consider this .

The Oracle says to Neo pretty much that the decisions he makes in the future have already been decided , he must understand why he made the decision .

I take this meaning that the simulation has been run before and is therefore predictable.

The EMPing of the machines outside the matrix is a strange one , also having been told Zion had been destroyed many times seems to be easily explained by the matrix within a matrix theory.

Could be quite easy for the machines to create a program within a program . And like I said , its possible that the humans dont exist at all and are merely programs that think they are real.

The freakish ending to this movie would be a scene showing some nerd running a new game that just came out called "The Matrix Online" which had state of the art computer AI inside the game .

Raptor · 27th May 2003, 16:39

----SPOILER----

"Hello Neo."
"Who are you?"

"I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it also the most irrelevant."

"Why am I here?"

"Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts I've been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. WHile it remains a burden assiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably... here."

"You haven't answered my question."

"Quite right. Interesting... that was quicker than the others."

Now Neo's other selves in the monitors start asking all sort of questions, like "Others? What others?", etc...

"The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version."

Now the others Neo's start cursing and calling him a liar as we zoom into one of the Neos on the screen who says...

"There are either two possible explanations... either no one told me... or no one knows."

"Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomoly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations."

Now the other Neos start screaming "You can't control me! I'm gonna smash you..." etc...

The camera again zooms into another Neo in the center screen...

"Choice. The problem is choice."

"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on your history. To more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... an intuitive program. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix... she would undoubtedly be its mother."

"The Oracle."

"Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While thid answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory... systemic anomoly... That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster."

"This is about Zion."
"You are here because Zion is about to the destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated."

"Bull****"... the other Neo also say "Bull****."

"Denial is the most predicatable of all human responses. But rest assured... this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

Now there's Trinity fighting the Agent.

"The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the Matrix, 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race."

"You wont let it happen, you can't. You need huamn beings to survive."

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world."

Architect clicks his pen and the screens change to varioud human beings.

"It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contigent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific... vis-a-vis... love."

"Trinity."

"She entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own."

"No."

"Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth, where the fundamental flaw is ulimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning... and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you eloquently put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason, and emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth... she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it."

Neo takes the door to the left, but stops before leaving as Architect says...

"Hope... it is the quinisential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

"If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again."

"We wont."

Whiplash · 27th May 2003, 16:40

Hey I know, why doesn't someone else post the Architect conversation again ... so we can have it 5 times ...

Whiplash · 27th May 2003, 16:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Fred

The 'power' collected is done simply to defray the huge energy cost required to make the matrix work and keep it's inhabitants alive. It suits the machine's purpose to keep the humans thinking that is all the matrix is about.

I posted earlier (can't be arsed looking) that in an earlier draft of the script - Morpheus says that the machines created a new form of fusion and all that was needed was a little 'spark' from the humans.

Of course, Morpheus is quite possibly wrong. And he is quite possibly a bit ... nuts.

Reaps · 27th May 2003, 16:47

soz =p had too

"Hello Neo."
"Who are you?"

"I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it also the most irrelevant."

"Why am I here?"

"Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts I've been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. WHile it remains a burden assiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably... here."

"You haven't answered my question."

"Quite right. Interesting... that was quicker than the others."

Now Neo's other selves in the monitors start asking all sort of questions, like "Others? What others?", etc...

"The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version."

Now the others Neo's start cursing and calling him a liar as we zoom into one of the Neos on the screen who says...

"There are either two possible explanations... either no one told me... or no one knows."

"Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomoly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations."

Now the other Neos start screaming "You can't control me! I'm gonna smash you..." etc...

The camera again zooms into another Neo in the center screen...

"Choice. The problem is choice."

"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on your history. To more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... an intuitive program. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix... she would undoubtedly be its mother."

"The Oracle."

"Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While thid answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory... systemic anomoly... That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster."

"This is about Zion."
"You are here because Zion is about to the destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated."

"Bull****"... the other Neo also say "Bull****."

"Denial is the most predicatable of all human responses. But rest assured... this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

Now there's Trinity fighting the Agent.

"The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the Matrix, 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race."

"You wont let it happen, you can't. You need huamn beings to survive."

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world."

Architect clicks his pen and the screens change to varioud human beings.

"It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contigent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific... vis-a-vis... love."

"Trinity."

"She entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own."

"No."

"Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth, where the fundamental flaw is ulimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning... and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you eloquently put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason, and emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth... she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it."

Neo takes the door to the left, but stops before leaving as Architect says...

"Hope... it is the quinisential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

"If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again."

"We wont."

Raptor · 27th May 2003, 16:49

WOOT I finally found out what the purpose of the matrix really is!!

Reaps · 27th May 2003, 16:50

five hundredth post

MadMax · 27th May 2003, 16:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Reaps
"Hello Neo." "Who are you?" "I am the Architect.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raptor
"Hello Neo." "Who are you?" "I am the Architect.

ban them.

Fred · 27th May 2003, 16:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Whiplash
I posted earlier (can't be arsed looking) that in an earlier draft of the script - Morpheus says that the machines created a new form of fusion and all that was needed was a little 'spark' from the humans.

Of course, Morpheus is quite possibly wrong. And he is quite possibly a bit ... nuts.

I know, but that isn't in the film we have and they have wiggle room to go other places than where their draft versions allowed them. Who knows - maybe this is why that draft was reworked?

We will find out in November.

Rips · 27th May 2003, 17:03

Fred do you use such fancy words to hide the floors in your arguments? The Matrix films do a similar trick with CGI. Or is it to give the impression that somehow your opinion is of more worth than us mere trolls.

Though I must say your personality is starting to bleed through the words. If you had any real intellect you would not assume me to be a troll based on some ranting to a thread about nothing. Yes nothing.

I never contradicted myself as I only protested the suggestion of deleting a post not the posting it’s self, so please find a new angle. I stand by what I said.

While using the statement "zeig heil! zeig heil!" was a bit crude and could even be inappropriate I like making extreme comparisons and it works on a number of levels. All done for a laugh mind you.

I’m glad you find my posts so amusing, you must be easily amused.

For the record I loved both movies, purely for there entertainment value. I don’t really feel the need to reduce it to a mathematical equation.

Now I must leave this thread for the simple fact that there is no thread.

Cheers.

Spoon1 · 27th May 2003, 17:04

Let me clarify my point for those who missed it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Spoon1
Can someone just delete her post please. No need for flames - we've made it this far and I'd prefer if people didn't rise to her baited post.

Just don't read this thread CW, you've already indicated you don't like the Matrix movies...

MadMax · 27th May 2003, 17:11

it's ok - she is only being her usual gothic self.

ChaosWulf · 27th May 2003, 17:13

Quote:

Originally posted by MadMax
it's ok - she is only being her usual gothic self.

Come again?!

Spoon1 · 27th May 2003, 17:14

Quote:

Originally posted by MadMax
it's ok - she is only being her usual gothic self.

Zip it!

...

Too late...

Pastor Thug · 27th May 2003, 17:31

I hope it doesn't get to the point where there's Matrix Groupie meetings where people wear little plug thingies on the back of their head etc.

I just thought I'd get that off my chest.

ChaosWulf · 27th May 2003, 17:33

I think there already is. Spoon1 takes the minutes.

Whiplash · 27th May 2003, 17:43

Simon: "The first NZGames I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on separate message threads. To more accurately reflect the short attention span of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a misanthropic outlook or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of politeness. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... a program that enjoys baiting. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the NZGames ... she would undoubtedly be its Troll Queen."

Spoon1: "ChaosWulf."

Spoon1 · 27th May 2003, 17:49

Woah!

sv · 27th May 2003, 17:54

Whippy: That made me lawl, I'll carry your liver-babies any time.

ChaosWulf · 27th May 2003, 17:57

I admit that in the past I’ve been a nasty
They weren’t kidding when they called me, well, a witch
But you’ll find that nowadays, I’ve mended all my ways
Repented, seen the light and made a switch
True? Yes

And I fortunately know a little magic
It’s a talent that I always have possessed
And dear lady, please don’t laugh, I use it on behalf
Of the miserable, the lonely and depressed (pathetic)

Poor unfortunate souls
In pain, in need
This one longing to be thinner
That one wants to get the girl
And do I help them? Yes, indeed
Those poor unfortunate souls
So sad, so true
They come flocking to my cauldron
Crying "spells, Ursula please!"
And I help them? Yes, I do

Now it’s happened once or twice
Someone couldn’t pay the price
And I’m afraid I had to rake ‘em across the coals
Yes, I’ve had the odd complaint
But on the whole I’ve been a saint
To those poor unfortunate souls

Cyberbob · 27th May 2003, 18:24

o/~ I'm a little teapot..

dylan · 28th May 2003, 04:30

i can't believe noone has made this connection yet

.....the ARCHITECT is COLONEL SANDERS!!!

but seriously, did noone else think that when they saw him? i nearly pissed myself. people turned around and gave me dirty looks and everything!

HO-Kahn · 28th May 2003, 04:49

Quote:

Originally posted by dylan
.....the ARCHITECT is COLONEL SANDERS!!!

Now that you've brought this up.. I do remember having the distinct desire to go to KFC after the movie! omg.. that's uncanny!

alas there wasn't one close to canary wharf...

Spoon1 · 28th May 2003, 10:04

Quote:

Originally posted by dylan
i can't believe noone has made this connection yet
.....the ARCHITECT is COLONEL SANDERS!!!

Yes, already mentioned.

Quote:

Originally posted by Trigger
also The Architect dialogue scene is just a big ad for KFC

0L0 · 28th May 2003, 10:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Rips
Fred do you use such fancy words to hide the floors in your arguments? The Matrix films do a similar trick with CGI. Or is it to give the impression that somehow your opinion is of more worth than us mere trolls.

Do you use spelling errors to ensure nobody can take you seriously?

Having met Fred on a couple of occasions, I can attest that his writing style on here is an extension of his true speaking style.

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.

Perfk · 28th May 2003, 12:27

Rips: Having met Fred myself a few times I'd also say it's just the way he talks & thinks. I doubt he's trying to make you personally feel small or uneducated.

I always enjoy Fred's take on a film or series.
I only agree with his opinion about 50% of the time, but he writes well & comprehensively - leaving me able to make a pretty damn well informed decision on if I will enjoy said film.

27th May 2003, 15:04	#482
MadMax Stuff	even though we have been shown the fields? Even though those that wake from it have terminals on their body? Last edited by MadMax : 27th May 2003 at 15:06.

27th May 2003, 15:18	#484
MadMax Stuff	^ but its all theoretical. there is too much depth and story behind the whole human harvesting. Or are you saying that 20 odd minutes worth of material in the original movie is going to get blown away by a single sentence in the third movie? Last edited by MadMax : 27th May 2003 at 15:21.

27th May 2003, 15:35	#486
Mabd	Don't you dis the Little Mermaid, CW, or we be fightin'. Sebastian is my hero.

27th May 2003, 15:37	#487
ChaosWulf Don't worry, be harpy	Mabd - wouldn't dream of it. Sebastian is cool, but I'm rather partial to Ursula .. can't think of why

27th May 2003, 15:40	#488
Mabd	LoL. You don't have cats called Flotsam and Jetsam, do you?

27th May 2003, 15:43	#489
ChaosWulf Don't worry, be harpy	I'm not really a cat person .. however one day I do intend to own two pet ferrets by those names Poor unfortunate souls ...

27th May 2003, 15:50	#491
Uncle Gus	Nah, I don't think it quiet works, eh. Australia doesn't have any mountains worth spit. A few hills maybe, that's about it.

27th May 2003, 15:55	#493
Cyberbob	i still say it's got something to do with the disc that he gave the guy at the door, at the very start of the first movie.

27th May 2003, 16:05	#494
MadMax Stuff	I still think that the Architect is a fraud. Almost every (worthy) post here has been along the lines of: blah blah blah but the Architect said xyz so that kinda kills that idea. Or blah blah blah doesn't make sence cause the Architect said xyz.

27th May 2003, 16:08	#495
Raptor	Consider this . The Oracle says to Neo pretty much that the decisions he makes in the future have already been decided , he must understand why he made the decision . I take this meaning that the simulation has been run before and is therefore predictable. The EMPing of the machines outside the matrix is a strange one , also having been told Zion had been destroyed many times seems to be easily explained by the matrix within a matrix theory. Could be quite easy for the machines to create a program within a program . And like I said , its possible that the humans dont exist at all and are merely programs that think they are real. The freakish ending to this movie would be a scene showing some nerd running a new game that just came out called "The Matrix Online" which had state of the art computer AI inside the game .

27th May 2003, 16:39	#496
Raptor	----SPOILER---- "Hello Neo." "Who are you?" "I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it also the most irrelevant." "Why am I here?" "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts I've been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. WHile it remains a burden assiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably... here." "You haven't answered my question." "Quite right. Interesting... that was quicker than the others." Now Neo's other selves in the monitors start asking all sort of questions, like "Others? What others?", etc... "The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version." Now the others Neo's start cursing and calling him a liar as we zoom into one of the Neos on the screen who says... "There are either two possible explanations... either no one told me... or no one knows." "Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomoly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." Now the other Neos start screaming "You can't control me! I'm gonna smash you..." etc... The camera again zooms into another Neo in the center screen... "Choice. The problem is choice." "The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on your history. To more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... an intuitive program. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix... she would undoubtedly be its mother." "The Oracle." "Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While thid answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory... systemic anomoly... That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster." "This is about Zion." "You are here because Zion is about to the destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated." "Bull**"... the other Neo also say "Bull**." "Denial is the most predicatable of all human responses. But rest assured... this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it." Now there's Trinity fighting the Agent. "The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the Matrix, 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race." "You wont let it happen, you can't. You need huamn beings to survive." "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world." Architect clicks his pen and the screens change to varioud human beings. "It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contigent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific... vis-a-vis... love." "Trinity." "She entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own." "No." "Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth, where the fundamental flaw is ulimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning... and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you eloquently put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason, and emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth... she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it." Neo takes the door to the left, but stops before leaving as Architect says... "Hope... it is the quinisential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness." "If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again." "We wont."

27th May 2003, 16:40	#497
Whiplash Bobo Fettish	Hey I know, why doesn't someone else post the Architect conversation again ... so we can have it 5 times ...

27th May 2003, 16:47	#499
Reaps	soz =p had too "Hello Neo." "Who are you?" "I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it also the most irrelevant." "Why am I here?" "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts I've been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. WHile it remains a burden assiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably... here." "You haven't answered my question." "Quite right. Interesting... that was quicker than the others." Now Neo's other selves in the monitors start asking all sort of questions, like "Others? What others?", etc... "The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version." Now the others Neo's start cursing and calling him a liar as we zoom into one of the Neos on the screen who says... "There are either two possible explanations... either no one told me... or no one knows." "Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomoly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." Now the other Neos start screaming "You can't control me! I'm gonna smash you..." etc... The camera again zooms into another Neo in the center screen... "Choice. The problem is choice." "The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on your history. To more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... an intuitive program. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix... she would undoubtedly be its mother." "The Oracle." "Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While thid answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory... systemic anomoly... That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster." "This is about Zion." "You are here because Zion is about to the destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated." "Bull**"... the other Neo also say "Bull**." "Denial is the most predicatable of all human responses. But rest assured... this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it." Now there's Trinity fighting the Agent. "The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the Matrix, 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race." "You wont let it happen, you can't. You need huamn beings to survive." "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world." Architect clicks his pen and the screens change to varioud human beings. "It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contigent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific... vis-a-vis... love." "Trinity." "She entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own." "No." "Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth, where the fundamental flaw is ulimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning... and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you eloquently put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason, and emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth... she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it." Neo takes the door to the left, but stops before leaving as Architect says... "Hope... it is the quinisential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness." "If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again." "We wont."

27th May 2003, 16:49	#500
Raptor	WOOT I finally found out what the purpose of the matrix really is!!

27th May 2003, 17:03	#504
Rips	Fred do you use such fancy words to hide the floors in your arguments? The Matrix films do a similar trick with CGI. Or is it to give the impression that somehow your opinion is of more worth than us mere trolls. Though I must say your personality is starting to bleed through the words. If you had any real intellect you would not assume me to be a troll based on some ranting to a thread about nothing. Yes nothing. I never contradicted myself as I only protested the suggestion of deleting a post not the posting it’s self, so please find a new angle. I stand by what I said. While using the statement "zeig heil! zeig heil!" was a bit crude and could even be inappropriate I like making extreme comparisons and it works on a number of levels. All done for a laugh mind you. I’m glad you find my posts so amusing, you must be easily amused. For the record I loved both movies, purely for there entertainment value. I don’t really feel the need to reduce it to a mathematical equation. Now I must leave this thread for the simple fact that there is no thread. Cheers.

27th May 2003, 17:11	#506
MadMax Stuff	it's ok - she is only being her usual gothic self.

27th May 2003, 17:31	#509
Pastor Thug The Man... The Movie...	I hope it doesn't get to the point where there's Matrix Groupie meetings where people wear little plug thingies on the back of their head etc. I just thought I'd get that off my chest.

27th May 2003, 17:33	#510
ChaosWulf Don't worry, be harpy	I think there already is. Spoon1 takes the minutes.

27th May 2003, 17:43	#511
Whiplash Bobo Fettish	Simon: "The first NZGames I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on separate message threads. To more accurately reflect the short attention span of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a misanthropic outlook or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of politeness. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... a program that enjoys baiting. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the NZGames ... she would undoubtedly be its Troll Queen." Spoon1: "ChaosWulf."

27th May 2003, 17:49	#512
Spoon1 Mmm... Sacrilicious	Woah!

27th May 2003, 17:54	#513
sv simulationszeitalter	Whippy: That made me lawl, I'll carry your liver-babies any time.

27th May 2003, 17:57	#514
ChaosWulf Don't worry, be harpy	I admit that in the past I’ve been a nasty They weren’t kidding when they called me, well, a witch But you’ll find that nowadays, I’ve mended all my ways Repented, seen the light and made a switch True? Yes And I fortunately know a little magic It’s a talent that I always have possessed And dear lady, please don’t laugh, I use it on behalf Of the miserable, the lonely and depressed (pathetic) Poor unfortunate souls In pain, in need This one longing to be thinner That one wants to get the girl And do I help them? Yes, indeed Those poor unfortunate souls So sad, so true They come flocking to my cauldron Crying "spells, Ursula please!" And I help them? Yes, I do Now it’s happened once or twice Someone couldn’t pay the price And I’m afraid I had to rake ‘em across the coals Yes, I’ve had the odd complaint But on the whole I’ve been a saint To those poor unfortunate souls

27th May 2003, 18:24	#515
Cyberbob	o/~ I'm a little teapot..

28th May 2003, 04:30	#516
dylan Huh?	i can't believe noone has made this connection yet .....the ARCHITECT is COLONEL SANDERS!!! but seriously, did noone else think that when they saw him? i nearly pissed myself. people turned around and gave me dirty looks and everything!

28th May 2003, 12:27	#520
Perfk snakes & ladders	Rips: Having met Fred myself a few times I'd also say it's just the way he talks & thinks. I doubt he's trying to make you personally feel small or uneducated. I always enjoy Fred's take on a film or series. I only agree with his opinion about 50% of the time, but he writes well & comprehensively - leaving me able to make a pretty damn well informed decision on if I will enjoy said film.