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Old 8th April 2019, 11:20     #4801
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
It would come under as a public health issue I would think.
I think another issue here is that if this anti-vax tour is decided be something to be restricted to protect public health then it'll probably be determined after the tour (if at all) and the damage is already done.

Similar to the argument that climate change denial needs to be an offence punishable by the law now because it contributes to inaction and puts a significant amount of human lives at risk.

I guess there's also some kind of streisand effect that needs to be considered.
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Old 8th April 2019, 13:24     #4802
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Interesting twitter thread, Jacinda and Chch fallout:

https://twitter.com/nonplasticmaori/...01689348628480
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Old 8th April 2019, 14:03     #4803
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
Hasn't Christopher Hitchens gone over this time and time again? He used the example of David Irving in one of his debates about the need to have free speech despite about abhorrent it might be.
As in it's better for all humanity to die screaming, than to give up freedom of speech?

Not that this will happen. Once the consequences of climate change start devastating the world, we'll quickly revert to totalitarianism.
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Old 8th April 2019, 14:07     #4804
pxpx
 
Jacinda hero trope is a clickbait strategy to increase revenue because the press needs to make money somehow and the current way of doing that is via advertising. If OP in that thread can't see that, then OP needs to take a deep breath.
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Old 8th April 2019, 14:32     #4805
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
As in it's better for all humanity to die screaming, than to give up freedom of speech?

Not that this will happen. Once the consequences of climate change start devastating the world, we'll quickly revert to totalitarianism.
Most of these antivaxx fuckers seem to be doing it as marketing though. Their antivaxx seminars and posts are part of their strategy to sell their PERSONAL HOLISTIC WELLNESS PRODUCT whatever it is. Telling lies to make money isn't a free speech issue.
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Old 8th April 2019, 14:35     #4806
Cyberbob
 
Not to derail too hard, but Ab's absolutely right.

Take a popular anti-vax facebook page for example:

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Old 8th April 2019, 15:37     #4807
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
As in it's better for all humanity to die screaming, than to give up freedom of speech?
So..what you're saying is you want people to die? /Newmanned
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Old 8th April 2019, 15:59     #4808
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I need to figure out how to sell vials of my cum to suckers as some sort of holistic wellness product.

Did you know that vaccinations have mercury in them? Fucken mercury! My cum has NO mercury!
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Last edited by CCS : 8th April 2019 at 16:00.
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Old 8th April 2019, 18:06     #4809
crocos
 
It's all lies: CCS eats seafood and everyone knows the mercury levels in seafood are too high.
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Old 8th April 2019, 18:19     #4810
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
I need to figure out how to sell vials of my cum to suckers as some sort of holistic wellness product.
It's a free market, you just have to lobby to shut down all these negative news articles that say your product is harmful.

This Man Actually Thought Injecting Semen Into His Arm Would Cure His Back Pain
https://www.health.com/sexual-health...-for-back-pain
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Old 8th April 2019, 19:46     #4811
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Believe it or not, the patient opted to leave the hospital without getting the semen drained from his arm. As soon as his back pain improved, he was discharged.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!

It begins...
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Old 8th April 2019, 22:09     #4812
Nich
 
Well no one can say for sure that the semen in his arm DIDN'T clear up his back pain...
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:28     #4813
Lightspeed
 
For some reason I naively thought the police keeping lists of citizens was considered the domain of fascists and tyrants.

Forty percent of us flagged by police

Guess I was wrong. Or was I?
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Old 15th April 2019, 13:11     #4814
pxpx
 
If only they flagged Tarrant with a few more alerts eh
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Old 15th April 2019, 14:22     #4815
Lightspeed
 
Question

What's a Tarrant?
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Old 15th April 2019, 14:39     #4816
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
What's a Tarrant?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...sque_shootings
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Old 15th April 2019, 14:44     #4817
Lightspeed
 
Doesn't look like anything to me.

I think back when we were fighting fascism, we were building a society for everyone, this being what protects us from dramatic acts against ourselves. As opposed to watching everyone who might perchance act in a rational manner from their own perspective.

Looks like we've lost that fight.
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Old 15th April 2019, 15:56     #4818
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I strongly urge anyone who gives a shit about anything to listen to the current episode of Sam Harris's podcast:

https://samharris.org/podcasts/152-trouble-facebook/
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Old 15th April 2019, 16:44     #4819
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Doesn't look like anything to me.

I think back when we were fighting fascism, we were building a society for everyone, this being what protects us from dramatic acts against ourselves. As opposed to watching everyone who might perchance act in a rational manner from their own perspective.

Looks like we've lost that fight.
What do you mean "act in a rational manner from their own perspective" ?
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Old 15th April 2019, 18:29     #4820
Lightspeed
 
We all have implicit beliefs about ourselves, the world, the future. These beliefs aren't arbitrary but form from our genetic inheritance, our developmental environment, the sum of our experiences, in a complex dynamic.

All this is of course an infinitesimal sliver of all potential inheritances, environments, experiences. And so two people can have starkly different beliefs that are completely coherent with all they are and know.

Given our beliefs are the basis for our decisions and actions, one person can rationally decide something that for another would be a completely irrational decision.
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Old 16th April 2019, 00:23     #4821
Lightspeed
 
An interesting article:

Only rebellion will prevent an ecological apocalypse

Quote:
The political class, as anyone who has followed its progress over the past three years can surely now see, is chaotic, unwilling and, in isolation, strategically incapable of addressing even short-term crises, let alone a vast existential predicament. Yet a widespread and wilful naivety prevails: the belief that voting is the only political action required to change a system. Unless it is accompanied by the concentrated power of protest – articulating precise demands and creating space in which new political factions can grow – voting, while essential, remains a blunt and feeble instrument.

The media, with a few exceptions, is actively hostile. Even when broadcasters cover these issues, they carefully avoid any mention of power, talking about environmental collapse as if it is driven by mysterious, passive forces, and proposing microscopic fixes for vast structural problems. The BBC’s Blue Planet Live series exemplified this tendency.
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Old 16th April 2019, 12:44     #4822
pxpx
 
So the next potential Brenton Tarrant shouldn't be actively sought out or monitored because their actions are rational when seen their own perspective?
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Old 16th April 2019, 15:14     #4823
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
... a perspective created by social media bombarding the guy with racist rhetoric his whole adult life?
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Old 16th April 2019, 18:11     #4824
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx
So the next potential cunt shouldn't be actively sought out or monitored because their actions are rational when seen their own perspective?
You reckon this event occurred due to insufficient monitoring and record keeping about individuals?

Maybe. Perhaps we do need to embrace totalitarianism and a police state, instead of just skirting around the edges?

What do you think?
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Old 18th April 2019, 00:39     #4825
crocos
 
I think your favourite fallacy is Slippery Slope.
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Old 18th April 2019, 14:08     #4826
Lightspeed
 
Maybe follow the discussion a bit closer. I'll help you:

1) I raise concern about lists being kept about private individuals by the police.
2) Somehow pxpx links this to a recent event of dramatic violence. He doesn't elaborate.
3) I bite, make the point that such events are expected given current circumstances: society is not for everyone.
4) pxpx asks for clarification.
5) I comply.
6) pxpx links my clarification back to a recent event of dramatic violence. He doesn't elaborate.
7) I enquire.
8) Something something slippery slope?

I don't really know what meaning anyone puts on the text they read, but it often seems beyond anything I've said or meant.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 18th April 2019 at 14:10.
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Old 18th April 2019, 14:22     #4827
pxpx
 
Did anyone get the point I'm trying to make with linking an issue of Police 'flagging citizens' to the man responsible for the Christchurch Mosque Shootings? I thought it was pretty fucking obvious lol.
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Old 18th April 2019, 14:51     #4828
Lightspeed
 
o_O

Are you making an obvious point now about how you disagree with this point, by making it clear we all have the same knowledge and experience and therefore explaining oneself is always unnecessary? Only stupid and wrong people need to explain themselves?
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 18th April 2019 at 14:53.
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Old 18th April 2019, 21:25     #4829
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I’ve obviously been away for too long because this sure as shit doesn’t sound like New Zealand:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/18...-of-modern-nz/
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Old 18th April 2019, 22:27     #4830
Lightspeed
 
Rolling eyes

See: Most of my posts in this thread.
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Old 18th April 2019, 23:30     #4831
fixed_truth
 
Another Spinoff article looked at aspects of why.

On capital gains, the powerful people took on the better argument, and won

Quote:
In the end though these pro-CGT people were hard to find – just 400 signed a petition in favour. Ten showed up in person to a demonstration at parliament. Millions of low income New Zealanders might have benefitted from a capital gains tax, but they had other things to do.
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Old 19th April 2019, 00:13     #4832
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
I’ve obviously been away for too long because this sure as shit doesn’t sound like New Zealand:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/18...-of-modern-nz/
You've had your eyes closed to NZ news for the last decade then.
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Old 19th April 2019, 08:00     #4833
xor
 
Shit's fucked, yo. NZ is a low wage economy - get out while you can.
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Old 21st April 2019, 12:16     #4834
crocos
 
Ethiopia is building possibly the biggest civil works project in northern Africa - the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam on the Nile.

Problem is inland farmers in Egypt depend on the floods that won't happen because of this dam. Sudan (further downstream) is much less effected.

It will be interesting to see how long before conflict between Ethiopia and Egypt breaks out, be it "Terrorist attacks" or actual war.
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Old 21st April 2019, 13:53     #4835
Lightspeed
 
Yeah, I've been watching that for awhile. Looks like it will eventually become an opportunity for a resource/power grab by foreign powers, as is their wont.
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Old 21st April 2019, 17:40     #4836
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
See: Most of my posts in this thread.

Let's do something then, because it seems like waiting for a caring government is a fool's game.

I've been checking out some "sponsor a kid" programs in NZ:

https://www.variety.org.nz
https://www.kidscan.org.nz/get-involved/support-a-child

Who's in? The pure hilarity of a kid getting shoes or a full lunchbox because of a bunch of antisocial video gamers on a web forum aside, if a few of us commit to chipping in every month it'll be easy.
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Old 21st April 2019, 23:53     #4837
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Yeah, I've been watching that for awhile. Looks like it will eventually become an opportunity for a resource/power grab by foreign powers, as is their wont.
Proxy-war like Syria?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Who's in? The pure hilarity of a kid getting shoes or a full lunchbox because of a bunch of antisocial video gamers on a web forum aside, if a few of us commit to chipping in every month it'll be easy.
If I had income, I'd be keen. Hopefully soon.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 15:14     #4838
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Let's do something then, because it seems like waiting for a caring government is a fool's game.
Hold the fuck up. Don't let your focus on single-issue politics blind you to the fact that the previous government was particularly cynical, even for a National government. Don't believe that just because the current coalition can't turn the government around on the dime they're happy with the status quo.

Quote:
Who's in? The pure hilarity of a kid getting shoes or a full lunchbox because of a bunch of antisocial video gamers on a web forum aside, if a few of us commit to chipping in every month it'll be easy.
I am in a similar position to crocos, but I could chip in a few bucks a month.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 16:44     #4839
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
You must be confusing me with someone who isn't a Green voter.

Right so you and crocos are in... any other takers to sponsor a kid?
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Old 23rd April 2019, 17:49     #4840
crocos
 
It still feels strange voting Green, because it used to be the party of idealistic hopeless fuckups. Nowadays I realise pretty much all the parties have got hopeless fuckups and selfish idealogues mixed with their competent folks, and the Greens have some very competent folks.
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