nCoV 2019

[The Edge]

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/12/sc...s-to-vaccines/

• Despite the description of them as “athletes,” 13 of the 19 were retired from their sport.
• Although Good Sciencing claims COVID-19 vaccines were to blame for the deaths or injuries, the website provides no evidence in most cases — 16 of the 19 — that the athletes and former athletes were even vaccinated.
• While in most cases the cause of death or injury remains unknown, we found several cases in which the men or their families point to other causes, such as medical histories. In one case, a former hockey player had been struggling with a drug addiction and died of an overdose, not from a vaccine.
• There were two cases in which athletes claimed that they had suffered an adverse reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine, but in one of those cases the athlete retracted his claim.

Originally Posted by Nich

Many athletes have reached out to the authors to confirm, while others have been discounted when insufficient proof.

So the authors of that website say...what was it you said about "trust" again?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Nich

Science is flawed and imperfect, and constantly proving, verifying, disproving.

The Science™ is perfect, settled, and relies on WIRED and Washington Post to stop "fringe scientists" (from Stanford, Harvard, and Oxford) from challenging a narrative.

I like science. I oppose The Science™. To what extent can Australia and New Zealand distance themselves from The Science™? My guess is they must fundamentally march in lockstep with whatever NIH, CDC, NHS chooses. The only wiggle room is superficial localization changes like messaging in Te Reo.

Oof, do you have to be so cringe? It's so embarrassing.

Take up boxing or something, you'll get super fit working all this shit out.

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by Nich

Don't trust, verify.

I 100% agree, it's just we disagree on what that verification looks like.

I feel like you've got a huge confirmation bias going on here. Your default position is to not trust official sources, and so you're seeking out any information that confirms your distrust, and ignoring contrary information. Any disconfirming evidence has been ignored, and simple fact checking has gone out the window when it comes to the information you're posting as evidence of your points.

You've already made your mind up, and now you're looking for information that can be interpreted as evidence to support your existing attitude.

I apologise if it sounds like i'm picking on you here. I'd just like to see you hold your own evidence to the same standard as you're holding those that show the opposite.

[Nich]

Originally Posted by The Edge

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/12/sc...s-to-vaccines/

• Despite the description of them as “athletes,” 13 of the 19 were retired from their sport.
• Although Good Sciencing claims COVID-19 vaccines were to blame for the deaths or injuries, the website provides no evidence in most cases — 16 of the 19 — that the athletes and former athletes were even vaccinated.
• While in most cases the cause of death or injury remains unknown, we found several cases in which the men or their families point to other causes, such as medical histories. In one case, a former hockey player had been struggling with a drug addiction and died of an overdose, not from a vaccine.
• There were two cases in which athletes claimed that they had suffered an adverse reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine, but in one of those cases the athlete retracted his claim.

So the authors of that website say...what was it you said about "trust" again?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Intern...ecking_Network

go find your favourite fact checking website in this cabal of fact checkers

[Ab]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus...e_pathologies/

Australia’s testing regime: fucked

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Nich

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Intern...ecking_Network

go find your favourite fact checking website in this cabal of fact checkers

No thanks, I'm good.
Cyberbob is on the money, btw.

[Nich]

Here's Pfizer's very own pharmacovigilence document tracking their gene therapy vaccine. last updated 25 NOV
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documen...nt-plan_en.pdf

It has an excellent section on COVID disease risk ratios across age, sex, race, comorbidities.

But the real info is from page 98 onwards.

Identified risks = myocarditis (common knowledge) and ADE (they note especially with leaky vaccines with waning immunity over time)

missing info = missing info on ADE, pregnancy, frail old people, auto immune, mixing with other vaccines, annnnnd long term safety data

[Lightspeed]

Which gene therapy are you referring to? I'm unfamiliar with that treatment.

Is there any discussion about this amongst the volume of experts out there about how problematic this is?

[Nich]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Which gene therapy are you referring to? I'm unfamiliar with that treatment.

Is there any discussion about this amongst the volume of experts out there about how problematic this is?

The gene therapy the CEO of Bayer refers to
https://youtu.be/MqK_58Bb2GU?t=6168

And yes.

[Ab]

mRNA hysteria is one step removed from 5G microchips

https://cosmosmagazine.com/health/te...with-your-dna/

[Nich]

It took less than 6 months for The Great Reset promise/threat of forced vaccination and digital ID to go from "most implausible" conspiracy theory to mainstream acceptance.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...own-conspiracy
The Guardian Sat 5 Dec 2020 00.47 AEDT

In its most implausible version, this conspiracy imagines that a global elite is using Covid-19 as an opportunity to roll out radical policies such as forced vaccinations, digital ID cards and the renunciation of private property.

So it seems to me, all I have to do is wait a couple of months and you guys might be a bit more pleasant and agreeable. Full credit to bob for remaining diplomatic and civilized.

The trouble with mRNA vaccines is less about the cell altering part (turning your cells into spike protein generating factories) and more about where those spike protein-generating cells are in the body. If they reliably stayed local to your deltoid muscle then your body's battle with its own cells would be something easy to repair and recover from. And your body would get full benefit, low risk and be trained sufficiently to fight Wuhan strain SARS-COV2 spike when it sees it (which it never will)

But that's not what's happening in many cases. The LNP can end up anywhere, but have a biodistribution similar to other nanoparticle injectables (lungs, heart, gonads, liver), then THOSE cells are recruited to generate spike protein. Then the body attacks THOSE cells. Cells of muscles can take a beating and recover, cells of your organs not so much.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200207...951-019-0506-y

A recent study mimicked the clinical scenario with ferromagnetic iron carbide nanoparticles used for blood purification methods, which theoretically escaped magnetic separation and entered the blood system of mice [101]. These particles mainly accumulated in the lungs, liver and spleen [101]. Although, MNPs were still present in the organs after a year, they were well tolerated and no significant immunological response was detected over time [101].

The reproductive system is another target of nanoparticles with possible detrimental effects. Upon in vivo applications, nanoparticles may accumulate in reproductive organs [102, 103], where they have direct effects on germ cells with reduced cell count or activity in both, female and male germ cells [104, 105]. Furthermore, nanoparticles are able to alter or damage DNA in cells, which would be especially problematic in germ cells

[Nich]

That's not even the part that scares me most (sterilizing germ cells, immune system attacking heart and lungs).

What really gets to me is the reduction in immune system function immediately following vaccination, and the possibility that after VE fade you don't return to 0% but drop to negative VE. ie. worse immune system than when you started.

Directly following mRNA vaccination, your innate immune system gets "reprogrammed".
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....03.21256520v1

Interestingly, however, the BNT162b2 vaccine also modulated the production of inflammatory cytokines by innate immune cells upon stimulation with both specific (SARS-CoV-2) and non-specific (viral, fungal and bacterial) stimuli. The response of innate immune cells to TLR4 and TLR7/8 ligands was lower after BNT162b2 vaccination, while fungi-induced cytokine responses were stronger. In conclusion, the mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine induces complex functional reprogramming of innate immune responses,

Here's a vid middle of the year of a lab tech noticing neutralizing antibodies drop by 6x after vaccination (refering to VE fade)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/med...ies/vi-AAKHPO1

ADE vaccination antibodies skew to FACILITATE infection vs DELTA (likely even worse with Omicron)
https://www.journalofinfection.com/a...392-3/fulltext

However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors).

ADE, OAS? Why not both?

And I linked to the Danish study on VE dropping below 0 already (tHaT iS jUsT a BlOg, sMoOtH bRaIn!)

So how might that all manifest in the observable real world? Well, things I am looking out for are increases in cancers, colds, flu, herpes, shingles, and even TB.

[Nich]

Composing those 2 posts just gave me a thought:
If your injectable lowers your immune system AND damages DNA, are you more or less likely to fight off the inevitable cancer from the retarded cells?

[Ab]

Jordan Peterson’s gone off the deep end now

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/...95549177434117

[Redneck]

What do you mean "now"

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Nich

That's not even the part that scares me most

You're just scaring yourself.

Originally Posted by Redneck

What do you mean "now"

I reckon, hahaha.

[Ab]

Is it having a big social media following that does it? Russell Brand’s gone full conspiracy nut too.

[Lightspeed]

Peterson always reminded me of those professors who are just a bit too fond of their own theories, their ego kept inflated with the steady stream of the uninitiated to impress that professors enjoy.

Russell Brand seems really smart, maybe it's the same thing? Every day someone is discovering the trove of "Brand being smart" videos on the Internet.

Eventually defences against your own biases lapse in the face of people being enamoured by your intelligence?

[fixed_truth]

And there's money leading the way.

[Nich]

And what can be said about them when it's proven their fears of a biosecurity technocracy become a reality?

"This isn't so bad! I don't know what they were worrying a out. My social distancing tracker is so cool! it tells me how sick I am, and how much CO2 I consume. And check out how convenient it is to tap-to-pay for stuff with my implant... hmm it's not working [checks gov app] oh shit my social credit score has dropped 2 points!"

Are we really saying the crazy conspiracy theorists do it for money, and corporate media does it for journalistic integrity to bolster an informed public? hah!

[Lightspeed]

I would take a biosecurity technocracy over what's actually going on.

What I'm hearing from you Nich is that your life has been real cushy until very recently. That even now the depth of misery that pervades Western democracies is beyond your comprehension.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Ab

Russell Brand’s gone full conspiracy nut too.

Pity, I used to find him quite funny.

[Nich]

I get the desire for an administration that is true to it's name, an office of administration where everyone is selected for their domain knowledge, and not their charisma and ability to collect campaign donations. And i get the desire to automate all of that shit as it relates to governing people.

I have a French friend who told me in France they have a School of Administration where all the politicians go to learn to govern. Of course, only the ultra rich can afford to attend, and may be accepted into the school. But i thought that was interesting, and that this one school produces politicians stuck in the Left Right paradigm.

But given how the web 2.0 big data big tech experiment is playing out, I am opposed to technocracy ideas until we can prove "the algorithm" is designed for our benefit, and not the ruling class' benefit.

I would support technocracy built on Ethereum. Open source, able to be audited. If government becomes a black box, and we let that happen, we deserve the corruption that will result.

Yes, life is cushy and I want for more people to have life as cushy as me. I don't think the solution is malthusian eugenics programs like planned parenthood schemes, putting COVID sick patients in old people homes, and a ton of other ways of making unimportant people just wither and die so there's more for the rest of us.

The world is abundant, and not evenly distributed on purpose. COVID vaccines were over-purchased in rich countries, then just before their expiry date they are sold to poorer nations. If we looked into it, we'd find rich countries hoard as much of the good shit as they can, and perform (highly publicised) acts of philanthropic charity to poorer nations with the scraps.

[Nich]

Neil ferguson has changed UK WORST CASE estimates from 5,000 to 1,000 daily deaths from Omicron. So we just have to wait a week, no lockdown and the predicted daily death rate drops by 5x. got it.

The pandemic is over.

[Nich]

Booster schedule is now every 3 months because vaccine efficacy vs Omicron goes negative after 3 months

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/12/28/...is-telling-us/

So let's recap. You get your COVID vax:
- 0-14 days your innate immune system gets reprogrammed leaving you wide open to all manner of infection
- 15-30 days you have a ton of Wuhan strain spike antigens
- 31-90 days antigens drop off a cliff
- 90+ days your defence against COVID is worse than when you started.
- get next booster, repeat

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by Nich

Dr Peter McCullough

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world...-debunked.html

[Ab]

but your innate immune system gets reprogrammed

[fixed_truth]

Nevermind that antivax flapdoodle. Omicron case active in the community, stay safe y'all.

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by Nich

- 90+ days your defence against COVID is worse than when you started.

And yet vaccinated and boosted people have drastically less deaths and hospitalisations than unvaccinated. Wouldn't the reverse be true if your statement is true?

[Lightspeed]

It'll be interesting to see how this bumps up with Omicron likely in the wild:

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

And yet vaccinated and boosted people have drastically less deaths and hospitalisations than unvaccinated. Wouldn't the reverse be true if your statement is true?

It depends how you look at the data - how you categorize, what your criteria are, etc. If you're only looking at "COVID deaths", then sure, you could say they have "less deaths", but if you look at vaccine injury/death numbers among the unvaccinated, you will find they are incredibly low. In fact, zero by definition. By that metric, the vaccine is much more harmful.

https://nzdsos.com/2021/12/22/vaccination-and-death/

This presents all cause mortality vs vaccine rollout (among the 60+ age group) and notes a correlation. Should it be investigated? Well that depends if you're prepared to accept the results. I doubt it will be, because that would open the door to liability or apologies, and I doubt the government wants to admit it has made any missteps along the way. Their re-election depends on it.

You could still argue that less people are dying "WITH COVID", even though more are dying from "coincidences after the jab", and since only COVID deaths are used in any decision making - and any suggestion of vaccine injury is dismissed - this is mission accomplished.

3x as many reported deaths after the vaccine as there are "natural" COVID deaths in NZ. Is this acceptable? They aren't admitting causality yet, because there is still work to be done to inject people with these vaccines that we've paid good money for. What a waste if we don't use them.

[Nich]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1476189028982702080?s=20

LATEST: The newly updated CDC guidelines don't require testing at the end of isolation because PCR tests can stay positive for up to 12 weeks, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky

you don't say! The Big Walkback has begun.

[Nich]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...tiveforcovid19

UK ONS Omicron Survey data. 3 dose vaccinated 4.6x more likely to be infected with Omicron

Vaccination status: Those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant.

[Nich]

and finally ONS weekly vaccine surveillance report Week 51

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...llance-reports

Cases 40-49:
22k unvaccinated
190k vaccinated

Hospitalisation 40-49:
580 unvax
490 vax

Deaths 40-49:
60 unvax
49 vax


So if I'm vaccinated, I'm more likely to get a positive test result which means more likely to have my "cushy" life disrupted while I quarantine. No thanks. Not seeing a huge advantage on the hospitalization / death factor.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Nich

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...tiveforcovid19

UK ONS Omicron Survey data. 3 dose vaccinated 4.6x more likely to be infected with Omicron

Dude you need to stop reading documents with a mindset of "looking for words that look like they agree with what I've already decided".

[Ab]

perfect example:

Originally Posted by Nich

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...llance-reports

Cases 40-49:
22k unvaccinated
190k vaccinated


So if I'm vaccinated, I'm more likely to get a positive test result .

No.

The only way that you could get to your conclusion there is if you had already decided it before looking at the numbers. What you should have concluded is "people in the UK who tested positive during weeks 39-51 of this year are more likely to have been vaccinated". Because that's what the report actually says. Which is like saying the sky is blue, because by now 90% of the humans in the UK over the age of 12 are vaccinated. Like, duh.

Most people in the UK who masturbated to furry porn this week are vaccinated. That is an entirely different thing from saying that vaccination means I'm more likely to masturbate to furry porn.

Originally Posted by Nich

Hospitalisation 40-49:
580 unvax
490 vax

Deaths 40-49:
60 unvax
49 vax

...No thanks. Not seeing a huge advantage on the hospitalization / death factor...

Again, no, and again, you could only have reached your conclusion if you'd already decided it before seeing the numbers.

Hospitalisations:
580 unvax
490 vax

90% of the UK is vaccinated. For every unvaxed person there are 9 vaxed people. That 580, way more than half the hospitalisations, comes from a group that is only 10% of the population. Adjusted for population size it's as if it were

Hospitalisations:
5220 unvax
490 vax

Like, if there were a disease that killed every male who caught it and left every female unscathed, we wouldn't be talking about people having a 50-50 chance of survival. We'd be talking about a pandemic killing men.

Originally Posted by Nich

http://<br /> https://www.ons.gov.u...tiveforcovid19

UK ONS Omicron Survey data. 3 dose vaccinated 4.6x more likely to be infected with Omicron

Again, no, and again the only way that you could get to your conclusion is if you had already decided it before looking at the numbers.

What the document shows is that when you compare

(1) triple-dosed people who showed a strong positive COVID result between Nov 29 and Dec 12 in the UK

against

(2) unvaccinated people who showed a strong positive COVID result between Nov 29 and Dec 12 in the UK

...the variant of COVID infecting people in the first group is more likely to be Omicron than the variant of COVID infecting people in the second group is. Which is like saying the sky is blue, because of course the variant giving triple-dosed people strong positive COVID results in the UK at the end of 2021 is more likely to be Omicron, that's the variant that has evolved since the vaccines were developed. People in the first group are far less likely to return strong positives to Alpha and Delta. People in the second group can catch any variant, which means it's comparatively less likely that the variant for which they have returned strong positive results will be Omicron. The only way you could come away thinking that unvaccinated people are less at risk in general is if that's what you decided before looking at the numbers and then you only paid attention to the words that, on their own, didn't contradict you.

Seriously man, the documents to which you link literally say the exact opposite of what you think they do.

Did you just skip over the cell in the spreadsheet, on line 25, that said "individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant"? The authors even put it in bold so you couldn't miss it... unless you were trying not to see it.

[StN]

Originally Posted by Ab

Most people in the UK who masturbated to furry porn this week are vaccinated. That is an entirely different thing from saying that vaccination means I'm more likely to masturbate to furry porn.

...unless the vaccine was developed by a rampant furry?

[Cyberbob]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

https://nzdsos.com/2021/12/22/vaccination-and-death/

This presents all cause mortality vs vaccine rollout (among the 60+ age group) and notes a correlation. Should it be investigated? Well that depends if you're prepared to accept the results.

OK, I'll follow you on this journey.
All cause mortality of 60+ vs the vaccine rollout.
The graph looks like a strong correlation. I'm initially skeptical, as i know the number of deaths by falling into a pool also strongly correlates to the quantity of films Nicholas Cage starred in by year.

My next thought, is OK, what does normal look like. If this is looking at 2021, what did 2020, or 2019, or before look like?
I googled "All Cause Deaths 60+ NZ"
My first hit was the MoH Mortality Web Tool, and its underlying data.

I downloaded the data, which gives Monthly death registrations by ethnicity-age-sex: January 2010 to September 2021.

I threw that puppy into a pivot table, because I love the hell out of pivot tables.
Rows are months, columns are years. Values are sums of deaths, and the filter is by age group, which I've included everything 60+



Then comes the graph.



Despite an aging population and a higher starting point, 2021 isn't even the highest year on record for April, May, June was on par with 2017, and still beaten in August and September. In fact i'd be looking very closely at 2019 and 2017.
Looks like the vaccine has learned to time travel!!11

Remember kids, letters in a winning word of Scripps National Spelling Bee correlates with the number of people killed by venomous spiders.
Curious.

[Ab]

And that's the problem.

Nich and DrTitus posted claims that I could read in a split second, but it took me an hour of downloading and reading linked documents and parsing the language of UK health publications before I even had an opinion. Bob probably spent an hour looking up years of health data and setting up pivot tables and making his own graphs. A split-second wrong is so much faster than an hour of thoughtful. Thoughtful takes time. And thoughtful is so less interesting.

[The Edge]

Originally Posted by DrTiTus

https://nzdsos.com/2021/12/22/vaccination-and-death/

LOL, NZ Doctors speaking out with science, or whatever the hell they call themselves. Right up there with Brian Tamaki and those Voices for freedom clowns in being well-known for spreading coronavirus misinformation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...ound-the-world

On the day the paper was published, Brock emailed it to Nelson lawyer Sue Grey, as well as the anti-vaccination groups Voices for Freedom and NZDSOS.