Matrix Reloaded * WITH SPOILERS* (you are warned)

[[TS]Sephiroth]

Why even post spoilers in here at all, especialy the people who haven't mastered making the text black?

Some people can skim-read, and you've fucked up a few bits for me now....

All I wanted to see is if people enjoyed it as much as the first...

[/grumble]

[Uncle Gus]

Yeah. I think the argument that Zion is actually still within the Matrix is pretty strong, since Neo stopped those Sentinels with his mind. Of course, you could say that, since he was able to manipulate the Matrix because he had a piece of his humanity in the Matrix, maybe he was able to stop the sentinels because he had a piece of the Matrix in his humanity. Or some other philosophical bullshit like that.

[Uncle Gus]

Dude. Reading a thread about a movie you haven't seen yet = stupid. Sorry, but you were asking to get spoiled, man. Honestly.

[cEvin]

Originally posted by ChaosWulf
Much like the first, then?

much like any action movie you see at the local village 8.

[BaM]

Best line from the movie, when the Architect was trying to get Neo to think and said: "You've used every muscle so far except the one that matters". Or something to that effect. Got a laugh out of me.

[ChaosWulf]

No, cEvin, the impact of the Matrix movies will be far far worse than your average action movie.

Somehow they've managed to convince geeks that they're "cool".

[EvilLumpy]

Originally posted by BaM
Best line from the movie, when the Architect was trying to get Neo to think and said: "You've used every muscle so far except the one that matters". Or something to that effect. Got a laugh out of me.

actually I believe that was Smith in the hallways with the the keymaster and Morpehus...

[EvilLumpy]

Originally posted by blur^
i believe it was Bane? who was infected by Smith and tryed to take out Neo from behind in Xion...

Yeah I forgot about that one. It wasn't mentioned at all after he dialled out...

but that still doesn't explain why the squiddies wouldn't eat him for breakfast? He's still only human...

interesting...

[Synergist@]

I was hoping Zion was going to be more like that spacestation in Neuromancer with all the Rasta's living on. It was pretty cool that all the council members were sporting mad dreads though, but for the rave scene they could have some mad dub styles for it.

[BaM]

Originally posted by EvilLumpy
actually I believe that was Smith in the hallways with the the keymaster and Morpehus...

Hmm I think you're right.

Excuse me, it was quite late.

[sv]

Originally posted by Synergist@
but for the rave scene they could have some mad dub styles for it.

the future is oonst.

[Jonan]

Great movie.

[blur^]

Originally posted by EvilLumpy
but that still doesn't explain why the squiddies wouldn't eat him for breakfast? He's still only human...

interesting...

maybe because the system still acknowledges smith as one if its own, or maybe it just believes smith will serve a greater purpose?



i still cant figure out why both of them are in a coma :/

[doppelgänger of someone]

I can't wait to see Cornel West, rapping his way to the movie!

[Gambit]

omfg
man
we had tickets to the premier in auck
and my mate rang up and spoke to some stupid fuken lady.. who just sed it was a "normal" screening... so we returned the tickets and got ones to day
ffs
man
i wanted to goto the premier

[rubberchicken]

Originally posted by blur^
maybe because the system still acknowledges smith as one if its own, or maybe it just believes smith will serve a greater purpose?

Is the Smith 'outside' the last smith, ie were the rest of them destroyed in the blast? And how does he look when he's jacked in? does he look like Bane or does he look like a smith?

Here's something else to think about. Maybe Neo isn't actually human. If Smith can take over a real body, why couldn't The One be some kind of garbage collection routine, or system maintenance program uploaded into a human body? Which would explain why he can do what he does, switching on cheats like godmode and flight.

If it's the 6th one, maybe they get better each time around, but this one malfunctioned and acquired emotions. That could explain the coma too. Neo has fulfilled his assigned duty and has shut his program down. And Smith's duty was to sabotage the fleet to ensure minimum loses, so he has shut down too.

[Kanz]

far out eager beavers!

i think i need to catch up, still havent seen LOTR

[borland]

To all the people bitching about spoilers: you're fools. Those of us who have seen it want to discuss it, as it's definitely a thinking kinda movie.

[chiQ]

I thought that the Smith, by hax0ring Bane in the matrix, then exiting the matrix in his place had hax0red its way into his body, i.e. Smith lives and Bane no longer exists. That does indeed open up the idea that Neo is also hax0red. Didn't think of that.

If this is so, and the reality of Zion is not a matrix then how in hell can Neo own the squiddies? Surely he can only do that within one of the matrices - the original matrix or the theorised matrix within which it exists.

And if Zion is within a matrix which encompasses the original matrix, then what has happened to Bane's body now Smith owns his body in both the Matrices? Is he dead and flushed?

Bah! Too much thinking!

[blur^]

this is so much better when many people think about it, gotta love multiple cluster processing



ok this is what im thinking atm, smith is a virus now right, he infected Bane in the matrix which affected his brain in the real, kinda like Brain washing or whatever. Smith is still smith inside the matrix, but he also has/had control of Bane outside in the real, he wanted to get out so bad, he was an agent of the system so he would try and help the machines eradicate Xion.


As for Neo, yes he could be a hacked human thats a great theory, one that fits rather well. As for how he could user uber powers in the real? well if he is apart of the matrix, and he was in the machines mainframe, mayby he formed some sort of link with the machines, he said "something is different.... i can feel them"

Or Maybe he is permanently linked with the matrix even when he is unpluged and he dropped a phat backdoor into the machines mainframe while he was inside, and he accessed it and nailed the sentinels?


still doesnt explain why he is in a coma, or poissibly thats a side affect of accessing the matrix without a proper hack into the system, ie he projected his "soul" out into the "ethernet" and cant find his way back?


just throwing a few ideas around

[SPONGER]

Originally posted by chiQ
Stuff

A lot of the events you speak of did not occur within Zion- so were outside the "matrix in the matrix" maybe? Could it be possible the gates to Zion were the division between the matrix and the "matrix in the matrix"?

Or the Architect could have been lying and the door Neo took was the Give control to Neo door.

[Trigger]

Here's what I figured out so far.

The Architect is the actual architect of the Matrix. He explains to Neo that throughout multiple trial & error Matrixes they designed they couldn't figure out why humans refused to accept it. He himself said he was frustrated with failure.
Then the mother of the Matrix, The Oracle, realised a simple solution. To accomodate for people disbelieving the Matrix world they would create another Matrix in which people believed to be free and fightnig the machines. They came to this conclusion by studying human history, where it's human nature to have something to believe in and fight against.
Now Neo is the anomality The Architect talked about. Neo is unavoidable and The Architect said it himself that he is unable to figure out how to avoid him, however nowdays he is a minor inconvenience and they created another Matrix (the Zion matrix) to accomodate for Neo. This brings 99% yield to people accepting the Matrix. Even thought there is quarter of a million people who have 'woken up' they are still in effect still plugged into Matrix version xx that The Architect designed, with help of The Oracle.
Now, The Architect know that Neo being 'The One' actually has the power to wake up from The Matrix. From the actual Matrix not just into the Zion Matrix, but Neo doesn't figure that out until the end of the movie when he realizes there is more to it than he originally thought.
The Architect explains to Neo that this is the 6th time the anomaly of 'The One' occured and each time they have to 'accomodate' for it by rebuilding the Zion matrix.
Neo didn't believe The Architect when he said this is the 6th time, since the other humans don't know all Zion and occurance of 'The One' is just part of the plan and it's accomodated for. Each time Zion matrix gets restarted they choose 7 males and 7 females (not sure of exact numbers) to 'wake up' from the Matrix and rebuild Zion giving them the belief they're actually free, etc, etc and that they're first people to be freed from the Matrix. Thus the actual Matrix is much much older than anybody thought since the history only starts each time they free the people.
And that's the reason why this incarnation of the Matrix is 99% accepted. The other 1% actually 'wake up' twice which is what happened to Neo once he destroyed those 5 sentinels after they destroyed the ship. Him going into a coma is him waking up into the real world. What happens then and what the real world looks like is a complete mystery, but it's very interesting to see what will happen and if he'll free the Zion people or whatever he plans to do.


Now the deal with Agent Smith is: after being 'defeated' by Neo he faced deletion, but he rebelled. As you can see from the start of the movie when the ship leaders are having a meeting to discuss quarter of a million sentinels boring to Zion and the agents attack. Neo fights them and notices they've been 'upgraded'. Agent Smith refused to co-operate and now he's another exhile, just like the Keymaker and that French guy (however you spell the program's name) and his crew. However he is a lot more dangerous because his original program was very powerful (I'm guessing the agent program has quite high power) and he is kicking ass.
At the end when he cuts off Neo and the Keymaker from entering the portal Neo asks him what he wants and he says he wants everything, thus he rebelling against the machines because he doesn't want to be deleted. Just like in the Second Reneissance Part I when the first robot rebelled against the masters because they 'had right to destory property' and he killed them because of his instict for survival. Agent Smith has the power and wants control, so he is fighting against the Matirx and Neo happens to be in his way.

[EvilLumpy]

Originally posted by blur^
well if he is apart of the matrix, and he was in the machines mainframe, mayby he formed some sort of link with the machines, he said "something is different.... i can feel them"

That's what I like to believe in

but there are a butt load of people insisting on this matrix within a matrix thing

but I don't believe that because it wasn't confirmed in any way shape or form

the architect said that this is the 6th time they're in this repetition with the one and everything else, including destroying Zion. He did NOT say that Zion was infact another matrix (well at least I hope not, it was pretty late as others have said) and he did say that if Neo did what 'The One' is supposed to do and clear out the over flow buffer divide by zero null pointer exception thingmajig they'd start again, release so many people of his choosing to restart Zion again and so on and so forth.

Not to say that the Matrix within a Matrix thing doesn't make sense, because it does, but I also believe that it isn't the only answer

Holy reality check Batman!

[Trigger]

He couldn't tell Neo directly that the whole Zion matrix is just another matrix because he doesn't want Neo to realize that... He told him indirectly through saying this is the 6th time they re-started the Zion matrix to accomodate for 'The One' anomality that Neo is and that they're 'getting better at destroying Zion' meaning they're getting better at making that world more believable so they up their yield.

[Trigger]

Here's what I figured out so far.

The Architect is the actual architect of the Matrix. He explains to Neo that throughout multiple trial & error Matrixes they designed they couldn't figure out why humans refused to accept it. He himself said he was frustrated with failure.
Then the mother of the Matrix, The Oracle, realised a simple solution. To accomodate for people disbelieving the Matrix world they would create another Matrix in which people believed to be free and fightnig the machines. They came to this conclusion by studying human history, where it's human nature to have something to believe in and fight against.
Now Neo is the anomality The Architect talked about. Neo is unavoidable and The Architect said it himself that he is unable to figure out how to avoid him, however nowdays he is a minor inconvenience and they created another Matrix (the Zion matrix) to accomodate for Neo. This brings 99% yield to people accepting the Matrix. Even thought there is quarter of a million people who have 'woken up' they are still in effect still plugged into Matrix version xx that The Architect designed, with help of The Oracle.
Now, The Architect know that Neo being 'The One' actually has the power to wake up from The Matrix. From the actual Matrix not just into the Zion Matrix, but Neo doesn't figure that out until the end of the movie when he realizes there is more to it than he originally thought.
The Architect explains to Neo that this is the 6th time the anomaly of 'The One' occured and each time they have to 'accomodate' for it by rebuilding the Zion matrix.
Neo didn't believe The Architect when he said this is the 6th time, since the other humans don't know all Zion and occurance of 'The One' is just part of the plan and it's accomodated for. Each time Zion matrix gets restarted they choose 7 males and 7 females (not sure of exact numbers) to 'wake up' from the Matrix and rebuild Zion giving them the belief they're actually free, etc, etc and that they're first people to be freed from the Matrix. Thus the actual Matrix is much much older than anybody thought since the history only starts each time they free the people.
And that's the reason why this incarnation of the Matrix is 99% accepted. The other 1% actually 'wake up' twice which is what happened to Neo once he destroyed those 5 sentinels after they destroyed the ship. Him going into a coma is him waking up into the real world. What happens then and what the real world looks like is a complete mystery, but it's very interesting to see what will happen and if he'll free the Zion people or whatever he plans to do.
The Architect couldn't tell Neo directly that the whole Zion matrix is just another matrix because he doesn't want Neo to realize that... it would mean losing a battery. He told him indirectly through saying this is the 6th time they re-started the Zion matrix to accomodate for 'The One' anomality that Neo is and that they're 'getting better at destroying Zion' meaning they're getting better at making that world more believable so they up their yield.


Now the deal with Agent Smith is: after being 'defeated' by Neo he faced deletion, but he rebelled. As you can see from the start of the movie when the ship leaders are having a meeting to discuss quarter of a million sentinels boring to Zion and the agents attack. Neo fights them and notices they've been 'upgraded'. Agent Smith refused to co-operate and now he's another exhile, just like the Keymaker and that French guy (however you spell the program's name) and his crew. However he is a lot more dangerous because his original program was very powerful (I'm guessing the agent program has quite high power) and he is kicking ass.
At the end when he cuts off Neo and the Keymaker from entering the portal Neo asks him what he wants and he says he wants everything, thus he rebelling against the machines because he doesn't want to be deleted. Just like in the Second Reneissance Part I when the first robot rebelled against the masters because they 'had right to destory property' and he killed them because of his instict for survival. Agent Smith has the power and wants control, so he is fighting against the Matirx and Neo happens to be in his way.

[EvilLumpy]

Well in that case why would he tell him anything at all?

Why didn't he just say everything else like ... door on left, trinity dies, door on right, everyone else dies...

I mean

DUDE!

[EvilLumpy]

dude are you just cutting and pasting thus stuff or what?

but anyway

yeah I'm with Spoon on this one,

is that a good thing?

As for blowing up the squiddies with his mind

a) he's created by the matrix
b) the matrix created him

with these two points in mind, why would he not be able to access their 'delete' keys with the hardware he's probably already wired up with.. I mean, hullo?

[Trigger]

yeah I cut and pasted it from the other thread since someone pasted my post to here


also The Architect dialogue scene is just a big ad for KFC

[Trigger]

Originally posted by EvilLumpy

a) he's created by the matrix
b) the matrix created him

err. He wasn't created by the Matrix...
in the dialogue with The Architect we are told occurance of 'The One' is an anomaly with growing human beings. Through some mathematical chance that The Architect has been, with frustration, unable to eradicate, throughout the history of The Matrix, for the hundreds or thousands of years it existed, there have been 6 incarnations of 'The One' thus far.
And to accomodate for this anomaly he created, with help and idea of The Oracle, programs (keymaker, the oracle), ideas(prophecy) and events (creation and destruction of Zion). Without accomodating for it, people would really wake up and lots of crops would be lost. As you're told there is 250,000 'woke up' people within Zion alone. However Zion is just another Matrix thus all those people are still plugged in, thus 99% yield, thus The Architect designed a very good, realistic, believable version of the matrix which only 1% of people wake up from.

[rubberchicken]

How about this: the machines have nfi how to attack Zion, so they run simulations to find the best way of attacking it to ensure success. If The One chooses (as the last 5 have) to save humanity in the matrix then the machines get a free attack against Zion, destroying it.

They may be running the simulation x number of times to get a good feeling for the probability that any, actual One will choose the death of the few over the death of the many. If/when a 'real' (allowing for all that has happened being a simulation) One emerges they may allow him to get to the architect and present him with the choice betting that he will choose the right door and let them attack the 'real' Zion freely.

Hopefully I've said that right.

[Uncle Gus]

Originally posted by EvilLumpy
a) he's created by the matrix
b) the matrix created him

That's only one point.

[ZuldaN]

Who saw the preview for Revolutions at the end of Reloaded?

The Oracle was narrating it. Made me wonder a little.

[Aragorn-]

A very good movie but not quite as good as the first, heres my reasons:

1. Too much fighting, too little story.
2. The fighting looked more "scripted" and not as natural as it did in the first movie, a bit like Jackie Chan movies.
3. The blatant American cheese like "cocking" their heads just after they've smacked down somebody.

A very cool movie, but not spectacular imo.

[blur^]

Originally posted by Trigger
stuff

alot of what you say i agree with and i have mentioned earlier, but i still dont really believe the whole matrix in a matrix thing,


but if its true, and neo's coma is because he has really "woken up" what does he do to get back in, hes definately in the third movie with everyone, so does he hack into the xion matix so he can hack into "the matrix"? thats a little OB dont you think?


and whats to say that the "real" he has woken up to is not just another matrix inside the matrix inside another matrix?


or how about at the end of revolutions he might wake up and go "whoa" .... the end

[orpheus]

Originally posted by chiQ
Bah! Too much thinking!

[Punisher]

alll good theries? (sp? tierd)...

what came to me is about the oracle...as they all say there controling him no matter what..just coz of choices..they mold his choices to accomodate ...they way they do this is the old "if i told u,u would break the vase would u do it, etc kinda thing..

Meaning this is all planned...especially trinity ...by adding a trinity factor they changed it so they could attack zion ....or something..

and mabye they were lieing and it isn't clearing the buffer and restarting zion?...mabye dunno lots of answer u cant find due to there being a sequal that has the answers...

by watching the after trailor it seemed that mabye agent smith is also a "one"...hes hacked everybody and copy/pasted himself...

this means to save the world,zion etc he has to kill him to destroy the virus at the source (as the matrix has to be destroyed at the source)

also adds the the whole matrix in a matrix thing...mabye all of zion
is rouge programs or something

:P my mind wonders
only the story writers etc would know the aftermath...but i assume they will take it somewhere good...


geez after thinking/writing...alot more stuff pops up DAMN THE CONFUSION
:|

[Trigger]

The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bullshit".*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! Fuck you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!"*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bullshit.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bullshit!"*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

[Uncle Gus]

That better be cut and pasted, or else you're a freak and deserve to be driven from your town and into the hills by a mob with torches and pitchforks.

[Jin]

gg wacowski's (sp)

you just mindfucked everyone(possibly the enitre world) who has/will see the matrix reloaded :>

lol

[chiQ]

Originally posted by Uncle Gus
That better be cut and pasted, or else you're a freak and deserve to be driven from your town and into the hills by a mob with torches and pitchforks.

Amen!

Nice find Trigger. Will have to read that and ruminate