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Old 23rd August 2009, 17:31     #16161
Thomas Meatball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flic
Thomas, are you implying biff was beaten because he was as shithead?

youre actually saying he deserved it?

thats low, even for you
Such an obvious troll. Not worth rising to.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 17:41     #16162
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
the reality is that what you're describing simply does not happen. Again, try to remember that your experience is that of a minority of families.
Rose tinted glasses anyone..
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Old 23rd August 2009, 17:58     #16163
Pastor Thug
The Man... The Movie...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Now.. they know you do what you say and some boundaries are set, next time at the park amazingly.. they behave when you tell them to!
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth...
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:15     #16164
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Thug
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth...
Yeah in extreme cases it can take 2-3 repeats. for example friends of ours come over for dinner, their 5yr old boy is difficult always would ruin dinner.. a total tornado hell bent on destroying the house but he was always stoked to be here at first. So we say to our friends he's going home if he misbehaves just warn him, then take him if he acts up again etc. Our friends hated to miss dinner but we said 'trust us' so sure enough after the first warning they took him home and he threw a total shit fit, they almost couldn't get him in the car. Second dinner a week later same thing happened, he just had to try it on and see if he could get away with it. 3rd dinner was a warning.. and he was an angel. Not only that his mum was amazed at how he changed in general once that boundary was set and he knew she meant business. Now this sort of parenting takes consistency and perseverance. The path of least resistance is smacking, put em on the TV or give them lollies so they'll shut up which basically does nothing to solve their behavior issues. The above method is one of dozens that when mastered will change the whole dynamic of your kids behavior.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:29     #16165
Lightspeed
 
The biggest lol I get is the reports of kids telling their parents they can't touch them and the parents going all "Oh waily, waily, waily!". This only highlights the fact that these parents only have one tool in their toolbox of child discipline.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:32     #16166
Markh
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
The biggest lol I get is the reports of kids telling their parents they can't touch them and the parents going all "Oh waily, waily, waily!". This only highlights the fact that these parents only have one tool in their toolbox of child discipline.
It is just as well that when the Government introduced the bill to ban smacking they also brought in education for parents on other effective means on disciplining children/establishing boundaries, oh wait . . .
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:36     #16167
Pastor Thug
The Man... The Movie...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Our friends hated to miss dinner but we said 'trust us' so sure enough after the first warning they took him home and he threw a total shit fit, they almost couldn't get him in the car.
Or just boot him up the arse and tell the little prick to knock that shit off. Then Mom & Dad can stay for dinner. Fucked if I'd be going home because little Johnny was being a complete arsehole.
It's all about behaviour modification by using pleasure and pain whether emotional, physical or both.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:38     #16168
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markh
It is just as well that when the Government introduced the bill to ban smacking they also brought in education for parents on other effective means on disciplining children/establishing boundaries, oh wait . . .
These kinds of services already exist in various forms.. it's just parents might be more willing to look into it now.

And of course if there were Government sanctioned education directives, there'd be the usual cries of "nanny state".
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:49     #16169
Thomas Meatball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Rose tinted glasses anyone..
You're living in an imaginary world if you think that the majority of families that use physical discipline routinely give their child and severe beating.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:03     #16170
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Thug
Or just boot him up the arse and tell the little prick to knock that shit off. Then Mom & Dad can stay for dinner. Fucked if I'd be going home because little Johnny was being a complete arsehole.
It's all about behaviour modification by using pleasure and pain whether emotional, physical or both.
Good on you. However I will make whatever sacrifice necessary to do what is best for my kids including missing a meal. I am aiming for something a bit more than this:

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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:05     #16171
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
You're living in an imaginary world if you think that the majority of families that use physical discipline routinely give their child and severe beating.
Depends what area of Auckland you live in.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:06     #16172
Thomas Meatball
 
Let's take New Zealand as a whole.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:08     #16173
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
Let's take New Zealand as a whole.
because if we do that then it evens out the beatings per sq kilometer and makes it ok?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:09     #16174
Thomas Meatball
 
No, because we're in New Zealand and we're talking about NZ families.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:17     #16175
Pastor Thug
The Man... The Movie...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
I am aiming for something a bit more than this:

Anyone can post a pic of retard kids to back their point... but does it really add anything to the argument?

The thing of it is that there are variables that parents just don't have control of e.g. the fact that some kids go off the rails no matter how they're raised.
You can aim for whatever you like, doesn't mean little Johnny/Sally is going to choose hugs over drugs etc.
If Sally does end up a crack whore, that might have little to do with whether she was hit or not.
Naturally docile kids will probably grow up, go to Uni, not binge drink or get knocked up at 14 whether they're hit or not.
Some kids are just hard out little fuckers and will live on the edge of acceptable behaviour their whole lives... some of them will even become famous for it - Hunter S Thompson etc.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:17     #16176
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
No, because we're in New Zealand and we're talking about NZ families.
why not focus on new zealand children and babies? Should they be hit or not? That is what it comes down to and we'll never agree on that so not much point.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:21     #16177
Maulmonk
 
What GMGs is when you get into an argument with your boss and then make some valid points in which they then argue back with some incoherent rubbish that doens't address your points at all.

You can never win arguing with your boss. Never.

Its like arguing with your gf/wife.

sigh.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:22     #16178
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Thug
Anyone can post a pic of retard kids to back their point... but does it really add anything to the argument?

The thing of it is that there are variables that parents just don't have control of e.g. the fact that some kids go off the rails no matter how they're raised.
You can aim for whatever you like, doesn't mean little Johnny/Sally is going to choose hugs over drugs etc.
If Sally does end up a crack whore, that might have little to do with whether she was hit or not.
Naturally docile kids will probably grow up, go to Uni, not binge drink or get knocked up at 14 whether they're hit or not.
Some kids are just hard out little fuckers and will live on the edge of acceptable behaviour their whole lives... some of them will even become famous for it - Hunter S Thompson etc.
Then according to you both our methods will ultimately do nothing or are you saying a hellion turns out better getting hit their entire childhood? Hellions basically need more attention, more positive reinforcement, more activities to get stuck into MORE parenting. Not hitting. No matter what the behavior it CAN be modified without physical abuse.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:30     #16179
Pastor Thug
The Man... The Movie...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Then according to you both our methods will ultimately do nothing or are you saying a hellion turns out better getting hit their entire childhood? Hellions basically need more attention, more positive reinforcement, more activities to get stuck into MORE parenting. Not hitting. No matter what the behavior it CAN be modified without physical abuse.
What I'm saying is that whether a kid is smacked or not has probably fuck all to do with how well they turn out.
Love, support, interest etc are obviously the biggest factors - they can be delevered to a child whether smacked or not.
The whole anti-smacking thing is just an extreme pendulum swing in my ever so awesomly humble opinion.

LolZ @ "physical abuse".
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:39     #16180
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Thug
What I'm saying is that whether a kid is smacked or not has probably fuck all to do with how well they turn out.
Love, support, interest etc are obviously the biggest factors - they can be delevered to a child whether smacked or not.
The whole anti-smacking thing is just an extreme pendulum swing in my ever so awesomly humble opinion.

LolZ @ "physical abuse".
Nothing says love like pain & fear of pain.. anyway... I see no point to this back and forth. Back to work.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:46     #16181
Vrtigo
Marginal Poster
 
god, shut the fuck up biff, you dont know what youre talking about.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:47     #16182
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Thug
What I'm saying is that whether a kid is smacked or not has probably fuck all to do with how well they turn out.
Which is a great reason not to smack them! Why include physical pain in your child's upbringing if it does not impact the outcome of their adult functioning?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:03     #16183
Pastor Thug
The Man... The Movie...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Which is a great reason not to smack them! Why include physical pain in your child's upbringing if it does not impact the outcome of their adult functioning?
Because it feels good?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:32     #16184
leadinjector
 
kids these days are fucking soft. a few more fatal beatings at an early age would help to stop them making stupid choices later in life.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:39     #16185
Vrtigo
Marginal Poster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Which is a great reason not to smack them! Why include physical pain in your child's upbringing if it does not impact the outcome of their adult functioning?
i think you answered your own question there.

edit: didnt mean that to be so harsh.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:46     #16186
?>Superman
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Which is a great reason not to smack them! Why include physical pain in your child's upbringing if it does not impact the outcome of their adult functioning?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:48     #16187
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrtigo
i think you answered your own question there.

edit: didnt mean that to be so harsh.
I'm not sure I did. If you're suggesting it's only the outcome that matters, well, the only outcome is death. And if it's not the outcome then it's the journey. I would wonder about any parent who would want their child's journey to include needless pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Thug
Because it feels good?
This is only my perspective, but I would consider any parent that would seek enjoyment/relief/satisfaction at their child's expense to be a monster.
__________________
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 23rd August 2009 at 20:50.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:57     #16188
Thomas Meatball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
why not focus on new zealand children and babies? Should they be hit or not? That is what it comes down to and we'll never agree on that so not much point.
What we don't seem to be able to agree on is that there is a difference between a light smack and a severe beating. Nor can we agree that the families where a beating is considered a normal punishment is in the minority of families. This is why there is no point arguing. One of us is talking about reality and you are living in a fantasy.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 21:32     #16189
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
What we don't seem to be able to agree on is that there is a difference between a light smack and a severe beating. Nor can we agree that the families where a beating is considered a normal punishment is in the minority of families. This is why there is no point arguing. One of us is talking about reality and you are living in a fantasy.
Glad your kids respond so well to a 'light smack'. So what is a 'light smack'? The skin is only red for 5 mins? I think your 'light smack' is a fantasy. You're telling me your kid takes a shit out of the toilet and rubs it on your Plasma TV you give them a little pat on the back side.. ha!
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Old 23rd August 2009, 21:48     #16190
leadinjector
 
fuck youre a munter biff no wonder you got so many hidings
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Old 23rd August 2009, 21:55     #16191
Thomas Meatball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Glad your kids respond so well to a 'light smack'. So what is a 'light smack'? The skin is only red for 5 mins? I think your 'light smack' is a fantasy. You're telling me your kid takes a shit out of the toilet and rubs it on your Plasma TV you give them a little pat on the back side.. ha!
This is why it's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you. You're completely unable to talk without making assumptions about some made-up scenario which, naturally, is taken to a ridiculous extreme. Simply put, you're a complete moron. It's nice that you don't want to hit your kids, but unfortunately you've already passed on your moron genes. Thanks a lot, guy.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 21:59     #16192
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
This is why it's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you. You're completely unable to talk without making assumptions about some made-up scenario which, naturally, is taken to a ridiculous extreme. Simply put, you're a complete moron. It's nice that you don't want to hit your kids, but unfortunately you've already passed on your moron genes. Thanks a lot, guy.
Yeah because kids never do ANYTHING ridiculously extreme lol..
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Old 23rd August 2009, 22:07     #16193
Thomas Meatball
 
*sigh*

Regardless, it's still a retarded fantasy scenario that you came up with and has no relevance to the discussion at hand. By now you've demonstrated that you have absolutely no fucking idea what the difference is between a light smack and a beating, nor do you have any idea what the law is regarding this stuff. You're basically some idiot who saw something on nzgames and decided to mouth off with his half-baked soap box ideas and couldn't back them up with anything intelligent.

Another day in nzgames!

Last edited by Thomas Meatball : 23rd August 2009 at 22:09.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 23:13     #16194
Biff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Meatball
*sigh*

Regardless, it's still a retarded fantasy scenario that you came up with and has no relevance to the discussion at hand. By now you've demonstrated that you have absolutely no fucking idea what the difference is between a light smack and a beating, nor do you have any idea what the law is regarding this stuff. You're basically some idiot who saw something on nzgames and decided to mouth off with his half-baked soap box ideas and couldn't back them up with anything intelligent.

Another day in nzgames!
Never in my life have I ever seen a parent give a kid a 'light smack'. I've seen kids with red palm prints on their bodies for several minutes from a typical smack. I consider that beating to clear things up. If you hit a kid and it stings, I consider that beating a child. But hey... whatever makes you feel better about hitting your kids go for it, it's apparent that you lovingly hit them so we're cool..
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Old 23rd August 2009, 23:15     #16195
Biff
 
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10587518

Quote:
A New Plymouth couple have stopped smacking their preschool children after they found that it quickly escalated into "bullying".

Stephen and Leanne Hodge said their 4-year-old son's aggression disappeared in two days after they heeded the advice of a pamphlet on other ways to manage preschoolers.

Mr Hodge wrote on the Herald's online forum on smacking this week that he and his wife were starting to feel sick about their family life until they stopped smacking a few months ago.

"Once I started smacking, I noticed it would escalate - the children started hitting each other and would also react violently to discipline. So I would have to maintain the strong-arm tactics, and they also escalated until I had become a bully," he wrote.

He said yesterday that the couple's 4-year-old son used to "come out fighting straight away" when he anticipated a smack, and that his 2-year-old sister copied him.

"It developed an era of nastiness," he said. "He would be very belligerent. We had to be belligerent back. Because we had bought into the physical nature of discipline, he knew that was going to be the result of it so he would start fighting before it even started.

"It just developed into an era of conflict in everything. From our gentle and careful parenting, it was becoming aggressive parenting."

Things changed when Mr Hodge took his son to a swimming pool one day and picked up a pamphlet from the Government programme SKIP (Strategies for Kids/Information for Parents).

"It was just a few bullet-points. I took it home and talked to my wife and we decided to try it.

"Everybody sat down and we said, 'Right, from now on we are not going to have hitting in our house. We're sorry we've smacked you. From now on we all treat each other the same, we stay happy and we don't have hitting in our house'."

Now the parents try to be firm but calm. Mr Hodge quoted a recent incident when his son refused to put his shoes on to go out.

"I leaned right into him, kept a calm voice, even slowed it down more, and said, 'Stop what you are doing right now and let's go'," he said.

"As soon as you lose your temper or force the issue on to him, he fights back, so it's important not to lose your temper, and explain carefully. He does cotton on that this is serious and you have to do it straight away."

The family also uses a "naughty chair" where "he can be seen to be quiet and do the right thing".

"It's a phrase we use a lot with him - 'do the right thing'," Mr Hodge said. "He kind of snaps out of his temper tantrum. All of a sudden he gets clarity in his eyes and starts listening."

Mr Hodge, a property developer who moved from Auckland to New Plymouth in 2003, said children were calmer in New Plymouth.

He believed that was because house prices were lower there and mothers could afford to stay home with their children, giving them individual attention.
-not a bad start although 'naughty chair' is pretty stupid. It is telling them they are a naughty child, not the right type of reinforcement.

ok thread hijak over -sorry- peace...

Last edited by Biff : 23rd August 2009 at 23:20.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 23:36     #16196
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Actually we tried the "naughty chair" and it worked pretty well for us.
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:43     #16197
Thomas Meatball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
Never in my life have I ever seen a parent give a kid a 'light smack'. I've seen kids with red palm prints on their bodies for several minutes from a typical smack. I consider that beating to clear things up. If you hit a kid and it stings, I consider that beating a child. But hey... whatever makes you feel better about hitting your kids go for it, it's apparent that you lovingly hit them so we're cool..
All this does is show that you have no sense of perspective. I guess you just want to lump everything into the 'beating' category because it makes you feel better. Y'know, tried to actually ban parents from smacking their children or, indeed, even calling 'smacking' a 'beating' is a nice sentiment but do you think it's really going to have an effect on that group of people who routinely give their kids an actual beating? I've got the answer right here: no it won't. All you're doing is making parents feel bad about giving their kids a smack while the thugs will still be in the headlines for bashing their kid in the head.
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:46     #16198
Thomas Meatball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
-not a bad start although 'naughty chair' is pretty stupid. It is telling them they are a naughty child, not the right type of reinforcement.
Wait... whoa... you're saying now that not only can you not smack your kid but you can't even tell them that they're being naughty? Holy crap, dude. You really are fucked in the head.
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:53     #16199
ChaosWulf
Don't worry, be harpy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
not a bad start although 'naughty chair' is pretty stupid. It is telling them they are a naughty child, not the right type of reinforcement.
lol
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:57     #16200
xor
 
So a clip around the ear for being a little shit is abuse?

Legendary
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