NZGames.com Forums
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Go Back   NZGames.com Forums > General > Open Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 3rd June 2020, 10:30     #801
Nich
 
China delayed releasing coronavirus info, frustrating WHO
https://apnews.com/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 11:40     #802
Cyberbob
 
It's not like they're being honest about the numbers.





"Did he say zero deaths? It's really 1300. "

"Did that other source say 1300? He meant zero."
__________________
ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ

Last edited by Cyberbob : 3rd June 2020 at 11:44.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 12:11     #803
pxpx
 
Why are we still in Level 2 if the governments excuse for letting the protest go on was "there's no community transmission so it's fine"
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 13:16     #804
Nothing
 
Was that the government's excuse? I thought their excuse was that breaking up the protest or not was an operational decision for Police.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 15:25     #805
pxpx
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
Was that the government's excuse? I thought their excuse was that breaking up the protest or not was an operational decision for Police.
Quote:
The Beehive's loss of control appeared borne out by the intense Ashley Bloomfield, who has told us there is no need for the protesters to self-isolate because there's no evidence of community transmission.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12336724

You're right though, its a police operational decision, but the government has defended the police decision by saying the above.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 15:43     #806
Lightspeed
 
Because we could be wrong and the consequences of being wrong may result in a volume of people dying?
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 16:05     #807
Nothing
 
So, the media certainly love to portray things in an oversimplified manner that suits easy consumption by the public I guess. I think the police recognised that it would have been a politically catastrophic move to try and stop the protest. Emotions were running hot, and in particular running hot against the institution of law enforcement. Police made the right call.

None of that means that those protesters made the right call to gather the way they did. There are other ways we could have expressed solidarity without risking any spread of COVID.

There is such a thing as asymptomatic transmission, and the government has been listening to, and setting its recommendations by, the scientific and medical recommendations. That is the right thing for the government to do. The fact that people have failed to comply with the recommendations government has been making does not magically mean that the government has lost authority or that those recommendations are all of a sudden no longer correct. It will probably be another 5 days at minimum before we will know whether the protest gathering caused any problems, and it might be longer than that, if there were asymptomatic protesters present.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 16:13     #808
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing
None of that means that those protesters made the right call to gather the way they did. There are other ways we could have expressed solidarity without risking any spread of COVID.
I would argue, no. This was the call that those people who got out there could make. Those who wanted to express solidarity in other ways, did so.

I'm not challenging your point, but I think it's important to recognise people are doing the best they can.

Those with the most power love it when we focus on the responsibilities of those with the least.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 16:43     #809
Nothing
 
I don't think we have a disagreement Lightspeed. When I say that the protesters might not have made the right call to gather as they did, I'm talking in the context of COVID. Gathering, as they did, if you keep stamping out COVID as the main goal, was probably the wrong call.

In terms of the other very strong reasons that they had to gather and protest, I find it regrettable that it took place in the context of COVID, but the protest was completely understandable, and expressions of solidarity with the American protests are clearly of great importance right now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 16:55     #810
Lightspeed
 
Yeah, I hear that. What I'm saying is that the focusing on who did what, right or wrong in this very moment is a great way of deflecting from focusing on the right and wrong in the bigger picture.

Crises don't occur according to a timetable. Human responses originate in biochemistry, not some kind of logical flowchart.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.

Last edited by Lightspeed : 3rd June 2020 at 16:56.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2020, 17:21     #811
Nothing
 
Agree. Enough trouble staying focussed on anything as it is, given modern attention spans and the way we drown in information (and misinformation) overload.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 10:25     #812
Nich
 
HCQ BAD, ORANGE MAN BAD

Surgisphere: governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...oxychloroquine

Surgisphere, whose employees appear to include a sci-fi writer and adult content model, provided database behind Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine hydroxychloroquine studies

up next, ZINC BAD, ORANGE MAN BAD
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2020, 11:10     #813
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Lancet gonna lancet
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 07:11     #814
fixed_truth
 
So, no Covid test after arriving into NZ from the UK?!??
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 08:38     #815
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
So, no Covid test after arriving into NZ from the UK?!??
Yeah - weird - I would have assumed all in the 14 day quarantine would get an initial test at least. Whilst my circumstances made me thankful for a little bit of rule bending (nothing that required an exemption decree mind you - more compassionate expansion of the single hospital visitor rule under level 2) I do think the incubation period needs to be competed before any people are released.

As for those two nutters who absconded... They've proven the point.

Last edited by StN : 17th June 2020 at 08:39.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 09:32     #816
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
there is no more vivid exemplar of NZ white government racism than "a travel bubble with Pacific Island nations is out of the question because safety, but of course people can fly in from the UK and wander the country without testing"
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 10:48     #817
fixed_truth
 
^ It's more kiwis travel to the islands and spend money & that's not reciprocal. We only lose out in that bubble.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 21:13     #818
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
^ It's more kiwis travel to the islands and spend money & that's not reciprocal. We only lose out in that bubble.
But we want to open the borders to aussie, so kiwis fly over there, and I would be interested to see how many fly back.
Considering the push in Aussie will be for local tourism
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 21:20     #819
blynk
 
I would love to see numbers.
So 2 were let go early, but told to get a test as soon as they get to Wellington.

But how many people are in isolation (or have been).
How many compassionate exemptions have been granted or denied.

I am a little more sympathetic (I guess the political bias I have helps).
Yes, people certainly screwed up, yes I think the 2 woman may not have been entirely truthful - even after the positive test. They either did not inform health officials what happened, or it did not get up the chain of command quick enough.

But its a bit of a stretch listening to people still comment about how the whole government is incompetent and they should all go. I guess they don't realise how bad it could have been here, and the gov actually did a pretty good job.

Except Clark. He should definitely be dropped. even if Adern doesn't want to, she should drop him now, and then during the next term she can raise him back up if she wants.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 21:38     #820
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
But we want to open the borders to aussie, so kiwis fly over there, and I would be interested to see how many fly back. ...
I'm keen to fly back to see family & friends - hopefully by November isolation isn't is a thing, given I'm only taking one week of leave. Flights & Accom already paid for (in January!).

Already had one flight cancelled (early June - as it should have been!) that I've got credit for, here's hoping I don't need to do something similar in Nov.
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية

Last edited by crocos : 17th June 2020 at 21:40.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 21:42     #821
MadMax
Stuff
 
Is there a name for the phenomenon where a serious accident or disaster is usually the result of a multitude of failings?

Take any accident report. It's never one small thing that failed rather it's often the result of a breakdown at multiple stages where any one of them could have prevent the end result.

That's exactly what has happened here and the crime is that this couple slipped through so many potential safety nets.
__________________
My degree of sarcasm depends on your degree of stupidity.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 21:45     #822
crocos
 
<deleted - misread question>
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 23:02     #823
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
But we want to open the borders to aussie, so kiwis fly over there, and I would be interested to see how many fly back.
Considering the push in Aussie will be for local tourism
Half of all our international visitor arrivals are from Aussie.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 23:15     #824
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
there is no more vivid exemplar of NZ white government racism than "a travel bubble with Pacific Island nations is out of the question because safety, but of course people can fly in from the UK and wander the country without testing"
It feels like fodder for a decent satire like we used to have. Maybe that's just cause I burst out laughing when I read the two that are infected had to stop to get directions on their way to Wellington from Auckland.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2020, 23:23     #825
ePi
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
It feels like fodder for a decent satire like we used to have. Maybe that's just cause I burst out laughing when I read the two that are infected had to stop to get directions on their way to Wellington from Auckland.
The women lied about their health condition then lied about not knowing how to get to Wellington from Novotel Ellerslie. It's literally left onto greenlane road, drive 25 metres then left onto SH1, keep on that road then you are in Wellington. Then they drove the whole way down without stopping for petrol and we're expected to believe some middle aged women pissed on the side of the road?
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 03:17     #826
crocos
 
Hmm. Given that many Aussie States are saying the state borders are staying closed, and there's talk of overseas flights not resuming until next year, I'm not holding my breath about a trans Tasman travel corridor being opened any time soon.

Is this view selfish? Yes. But I want to see my family, can't exactly have a hug over a Zoom call.
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 06:02     #827
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax
Is there a name for the phenomenon where a serious accident or disaster is usually the result of a multitude of failings?
We call it the Swiss Cheese model.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 10:25     #828
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
way more than just those two.

"An avalanche of incompetence"

https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulleti...antine-system/
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 10:53     #829
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
the birthday girl blew out the candles, and then a ministry of health worker (wearing gloves for safety, of course) handed out pieces of cake.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 11:04     #830
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
As for those two nutters who absconded... They've proven the point.
Ahh - I may have been rash in calling the 8 and 19 year olds that attended a Black Power tangi, and then did a runner, as nutters.

Wait...

Nope - I think I was right.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 12:02     #831
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Half of all our international visitor arrivals are from Aussie.
There's 2 points to that.
1 - Half of our pre covid visitor arrivals are from Aussie.
2 - How many of them are tourists, and will actually do the touristy things that people want, and how many are family that come over for a weekend?

I just believe that even if the borders open up, there is a big push in Oz to travel locally.
Same as is here, travel local, buy local.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 12:08     #832
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ePi
The women lied about their health condition then lied about not knowing how to get to Wellington from Novotel Ellerslie. It's literally left onto greenlane road, drive 25 metres then left onto SH1, keep on that road then you are in Wellington. Then they drove the whole way down without stopping for petrol and we're expected to believe some middle aged women pissed on the side of the road?
People are saying not to give them a hard time, which I agree its not entirely their fault and there were failings within the MoH.
But I agree about lying about their health condition. They have come from the UK, they have been living with the cluster fuck from over there and the surrounding countries.
Driving the wrong way, use your fucking phone/gps. Its not that fucking hard.

Same about not stopping. Fairly certain we will find out more, I guess it will then depend on whether they didn't tell the MoH or the person they told decided not to raise it up the chain.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 12:38     #833
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Farrar:

Quote:
  • 10 people in quarantine allowed out to attend a funeral with 150 people, eight days after the Government said no exemptions for funerals were being granted
  • A traveller from the United States went to a gathering with 40 people a day after she arrived in Auckland and before she was tested for Covid-19. This also occured four days after the Government said no exemptions for funerals and wakes.
  • Six people absconded after being granted compassionate leave from Covid-19 quarantine to attend a Hamilton funeral.
  • An allegation that two visitors from the UK did have undisclosed contact with people while travelling. (UPDATE: The allegations are correct, and the person who was in contact with them attended a gym the next day)
  • The Chief Ombudsman has revealed his staff came into contact with people in quarantine.
  • Health officials arranged a birthday party for a girl in managed isolation
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 14:37     #834
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
There's 2 points to that.
1 - Half of our pre covid visitor arrivals are from Aussie.
2 - How many of them are tourists, and will actually do the touristy things that people want, and how many are family that come over for a weekend?

I just believe that even if the borders open up, there is a big push in Oz to travel locally.
Same as is here, travel local, buy local.
A lot are tourists but yeah I've no idea what people's traveling intentions are post-covid.

If all traveling involves 14 day isolation then that's going to be a barrier for most people I suppose. We could target mega-rich to come over for a few months to get away from the chaos.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 15:15     #835
sidbo
Raptus regaliter
 
This may be an unpopular opinion, but the most stunning example of bad judgement in this debacle was Woodhouse hanging onto the information that they'd initially gone the wrong way and met someone to get them back on track, to engage in a fucking "gotcha" moment.

Woodhouse claiming his job is to hold the govt accountable is disingenuous, his job is to serve the people. You can still hold the govt to account whilst making sure that the relevant information was in the hands of those that needed it as a priority.

Party before people politicizing of this nature fucking disgusts me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 15:35     #836
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Health Minister David Clark has alleged in Parliament that National MP Chris Bishop lobbied for the early release from quarantine of two sisters who later tested positive for coronavirus.
Well that's not a good look then, is it.
__________________
ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 15:38     #837
Nothing
 
Holy fucking shit, some people need to be fucking fired. Like, your kid is in quarantine and having a birthday? Tough fucking shit, it's quarantine, cry me a river.

You know someone who is dying and you're here to see them, but you're in quarantine? I don't give a fuck, stay in fucking quarantine you fucks. We just spent billions of dollars to eliminate that fucking disease and keep our vulnerable people safe, the fact that you know someone who is dying doesn't entitle you to travel through our safe society spreading your UK fucking disease.

Sorry, but this just makes me angry. Yes, give quarantine to the army to manage, fully support this decision. No fucking exceptions, enfoced with guns. Thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 16:28     #838
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Farrar:
...eight days after the Government said no exemptions...
Just a note though.
Some fucker went to the courts to test the government strict no exemptions and won. Which I believe is why they have started to make exemptions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 16:32     #839
blynk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidbo
This may be an unpopular opinion, but the most stunning example of bad judgement in this debacle was Woodhouse hanging onto the information that they'd initially gone the wrong way and met someone to get them back on track, to engage in a fucking "gotcha" moment.

Woodhouse claiming his job is to hold the govt accountable is disingenuous, his job is to serve the people. You can still hold the govt to account whilst making sure that the relevant information was in the hands of those that needed it as a priority.

Party before people politicizing of this nature fucking disgusts me.
I wondered that too, anytime something that is important is released during a parliament sitting, its political. I would like to know that time line as well.

And then you here that Chris Bishop helped the 2 get the exemption.

And then "The two women at the heart of the first new coronavirus cases this week have "no recollection" of having any physical contact with friends on their journey from Auckland to Wellington."

So where did this physical contact originate from?

Last edited by blynk : 18th June 2020 at 16:34.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2020, 16:49     #840
ZoSo
 
C'mon sid, you're smarter than that. That's the shitty narrative they want you to be angry about. Even on red radio Bloomfield says the ministry reconnected with them "tuesday evening" and "they did not deem it material because it was a very fleeting interaction".
Woodhouse said he found out "late Tuesday" and wanted to verify it (as you'd want to in these ridiculous times *cough*). so.. yeah.. Onto the next BS Bishop narative!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...els-bloomfield

I thought for sure she'd be well into her 2nd term before the sham that is our border control and quarantine was exposed. We're just lucky more of those coming in haven't been cunts. Cause they easily could have been. Kudos to them.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



© Copyright NZGames.com 1996-2023
Site paid for by members (love you guys)