Superannuation

[CCS]

Lol, THE WAR ON THE POOR! FUCKEN JOHN KEYS IS ALL ABOUT RICH PEOPLE AND HE HATES POOR PEOPLES!

[fixed_truth]

Positive focus to create jobs better than benefit-bashing

They've tried to put the fear of God into every right-thinking taxpayer by conjuring up the nightmare that if everybody currently on a benefit stayed on it for the rest of their lives, the cost would be $50 billion. And that's ignoring all the yet-to-be sick and unemployed and pregnant, bludgers who are queuing round the corner, waiting to sign up for their lifetime of sponging off the taxpayer. Shock, horror and pass the smelling salts.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by CCS

Lol, THE WAR ON THE POOR! FUCKEN JOHN KEYS IS ALL ABOUT RICH PEOPLE AND HE HATES POOR PEOPLES!

He's certainly not acting like someone who dislikes rich people and likes poor people...

...proof to the contrary welcomed, of course.

[Ab]

Waking up to the problem in the USA.

We have 78 million baby boomers who, when fully retired, will collect benefits from Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid that, on average, exceed per-capita GDP. The annual costs of these entitlements will total about $4 trillion in today’s dollars. Yes, our economy will be bigger in 20 years, but not big enough to handle this size load year after year.

This is what happens when you run a massive Ponzi scheme for six decades straight, taking ever larger resources from the young and giving them to the old while promising the young their eventual turn at passing the generational buck.

Herb Stein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under U.S. President Richard Nixon, coined an oft-repeated phrase: “Something that can’t go on, will stop.” True enough. Uncle Sam’s Ponzi scheme will stop. But it will stop too late.

And it will stop in a very nasty manner. The first possibility is massive benefit cuts visited on the baby boomers in retirement. The second is astronomical tax increases that leave the young with little incentive to work and save. And the third is the government simply printing vast quantities of money to cover its bills.

LOL, like any western government would consider option #1.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...kotlikoff.html

[Lightspeed]

The problem is with a broke US, people get more desperate and crazy people with crazy promises get elected to power. Broke or not, the US has a lot of nukes and has plenty of viable scapegoats, like Iran.

[fidgit]

Originally Posted by Ab

Waking up to the problem in the USA.



LOL, like any western government would consider option #1.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...kotlikoff.html

And anyone that's done 3rd form Economics knows #3 isn't a go-er so... sucks to be under 60.

[fixed_truth]

go go compulsory kiwisaver!

[A Corpse]

Nats cut Kiwisaver. Nats make Kiwisaver compulsory. ADHD much?

[Lightspeed]

Sounds like they're beginning to accept reality.

People can only have their cake and eat it too for so long.

[Saladin]

Labour were going to make it (comp Kiwisaver) an election issue, so I guess the Nat pollsters have run the numbers and decided to head them off before they could.

[Ab]

Labour leader Phil Goff said yesterday that KiwiSaver - which workers can opt out of - had been a great success, but had had little impact on overall net savings.

Well, which is it Phil? Has it been a great success or has it had little impact?

[crocos]

Both: For those that are using it it's been a great success, but not enough people are using it to have an overall net impact.

[Vrtigo]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

go go compulsory kiwisaver!

isnt the money going into your kiwisaver account just used to gamble on the markets? including american markets?

[A Corpse]

Originally Posted by Vrtigo

isnt the money going into your kiwisaver account just used to gamble on the markets? including american markets?

Depends what provider you go with, and what type of fund you choose at that provider.

I'm with ASB and they offer a range of plans with different amounts of different fund types in them.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by crocos

Both: For those that are using it it's been a great success, but not enough people are using it to have an overall net impact.

That's like saying NZ hospitals are awesome because some people have gotten better, although overall the presence of hospitals has had no overall impact on New Zealanders' health.

[fixed_truth]

Everyone that uses the hospital gets better. Not enough people are using the hospital.

Though if you're in kiwisaver you're still entitled to a pension, so I would like to to see compulsory kiwisaver with state pension phased out.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Everyone that uses the hospital gets better.

Oh, really.

[fixed_truth]

Do you not think that a 2% contribution is a justifiable investment for a family?

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Ab

No political party has the balls to piss off the boomers.

Fairfax is reporting that Labour's about to announce an increase in the retirement age to 67.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...retirement-age

Credit where it's due - ballsy policy.

[Deadmeat]

I guess the net effect of this is that Key's promise of keeping the age at 65 is now in essence a bribe to those voters retiring in the next few years. How big that bribe is seems to depend on how long Key stays pm, since to keep his pledge he could step down as PM and then National move the age. Are Labour going to have some numbers on what it will cost extra for every year it remains at 65.

Looking forward to all the GenXers whining about working their whole lives and expecting it in return and that GenY is the gen that expects eveything easy.

[smeggar]

I’ve obviously been looking at the ‘can’t afford superannuation’ problem the wrong way. I’ve always thought of the problem as:

“When all these baby boomers retire how are we possibly going to afford their self-appropriated entitlements?”

When in fact the actual problem appears to be:

“When we retire, how can the rest of country afford our entitlements? – B. Boomer”

Granted this policy does affect half of the boomers (1945-1965), they still collectively receive 80% of their retirement age entitlements from ages 65-67 (rough calc based on 2 month reduction per year from 2020) 394/504 months. Hardly much of a haircut.

[ZoSo]

Originally Posted by Ab

Credit where it's due - ballsy policy.

Idiot/Savant is Calling bullshit!

[Golden Teapot]

The population age bubble is quite different in NZ compared to many other countries and there are alternative less painful ways of dealing to it than the desperate measure of just increasing the eligibility age. labour knows this full well.

As per usual this is just electioneering aimed at vulnerable segments of the electorate.

[GM]

Well I'm hearing the number of people set to retire will double by 2020, pension costs 4% of GDP which is set to rise to 8% in that same period.

Sounds like a perfectly sensible thing to do, completely ruling out any policy changes for an entire age range for the tenure of your leadership is actually worse - and that's what JK has done.

[Golden Teapot]

Of the several alternatives here is one that's very easy to understand: Why not change the age profile of the population instead? There's plenty of room to balance the population with youngsters and there's decades of time within which to do it.

[Redneck]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

As per usual this is just electioneering aimed at selfish, self-important, self-absorbed segments of the electorate.

I wouldn't mind them so much if they hadn't seen this coming for DECADES.

[Dazza]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Of the several alternatives here is one that's very easy to understand: Why not change the age profile of the population instead? There's plenty of room to balance the population with youngsters and there's decades of time within which to do it.

I don't follow, how do you figure there are decades to do it? Are NZ boomers not those born after WWII? Though it maybe until 2050 till the percentage of those over 65 approach a maximum We're already at the stage when the elderly population is increasing very rapidly. And how do you increase the number of tax paying youngsters that quickly?

How is the population age bubble different in NZ? Looks pretty similar to other countries to my untrained eye.
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_...ing-in-nz.aspx

I'd love to be proven wrong on this, I really don't want to see our country just paying for it by more debt and selling what little else we have

[Deadmeat]

Well if that's the plan, National are going about it the wrong way.

I would assume GT has bought completely into PREFU and it's message of writing to Santa and asking for European economic stability for Christmas. oh...

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Of the several alternatives here is one that's very easy to understand: Why not change the age profile of the population instead? There's plenty of room to balance the population with youngsters and there's decades of time within which to do it.

Well, that looks to be happening with the Polynesian population in NZ, at least 2 in 5 being under the age of 15, so that's positive at least.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Dazza

And how do you increase the number of tax paying youngsters that quickly?

Find an English speaking emerging country with countless well educated people who don't want to live there but who have no current alternative. Open the flood gates to immigration. India is one such example of a source of immigrants.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Dazza

I don't follow, how do you figure there are decades to do it?

One reason is that you only need to back-fill the parts of the working population that actually net pay tax after cash-flows from the State are offset. Currently less than 20% of tax payers are like this.

[Pimp-X]

Originally Posted by ZoSo

Idiot/Savant is Calling bullshit!

Lol, lol, lol your party,
Gently around the S-bend
Merrily merrily merrily merrily,
Something something lol.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Ab

Fairfax is reporting that Labour's about to announce an increase in the retirement age to 67.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...retirement-age

Credit where it's due - ballsy policy.

Yep.

Despite Key bullshitting that it doesn't need to happen, only people in denial won't acknowledge that it really does. GG Labour.

[blynk]

Its not like raising it is going to have much effect on people yet.

It starts in 9 years time, so if you are 56+ then it doesn't affect you.
And then in goes about 2 months per year, so if you are 50+ its only 1 extra year.

Just do it already. The majority of occupations now are not heavy labour, which would require an earlier retirement.

[BathTub]

Yeah it's one of those no-brainers really, don't see why they don't just do it.

[Redneck]

Old people vote, that's why

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Despite Key bullshitting that it doesn't need to happen, only people in denial won't acknowledge that it really does.

Actually, it's mostly the poorly educated and not-very-smart people who are parroting back what their implicitly trusted politician has told them is true. This despite the issue in NZ being so patently obviously different to the issues faced in many other countries.

It requires but a modicum of intellect and an open mind to imagine several alternative methods of dealing to the problem here.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Redneck

Old people vote, that's why

Or more likely it's because even an evil labour government understands that Governments' have a responsibility to try to achieve equity between generations.

[Lightspeed]

And what stone tablet is this written on?

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Actually, it's mostly the poorly educated and not-very-smart people who are parroting back what their implicitly trusted politician has told them is true. This despite the issue in NZ being so patently obviously different to the issues faced in many other countries.

It requires but a modicum of intellect and an open mind to imagine several alternative methods of dealing to the problem here.

Your 'National = Good, Labour = Evil' line is getting boring.

Raising the retirement wage is endorsed by the Retirement Commission, most NZ economists and political commentators, and even your mates from ACT.