Asset-sales referendum

[Ab]

How responded you, savages?

Do you support the Government selling up to 49% of Meridian Energy, Mighty River Power, Genesis Power, Solid Energy, and Air New Zealand?

[CCS]

Yes.


Make a poll, you cunt.

[CCS]

Citizens Initiated Referendum 2013
Preliminary Result 

Yes            	       	   432,950
No             	    	   895,322
Total Valid Votes 	 1,332,340

Total number	    	 3,037,405
of voters
enrolled as at
21 November 2013

General Election 2011
National Party           1,058,636
Labour Party		   614,937
Green Party		   247,372

[fixed_truth]

You missed yes - did not respond.

[Ab]

?

[fixed_truth]

Lol never mind. Sunday session.

[StN]

I don't think I got the papers - but Whaleoils story about the Postie union asking members to not deliver them, but to collect them for the union to complete in the negative and return sounds a little bit tinfoil hatty...

[leadinjector]

dont recall recieving any. but who gives a fuck right? obviously not most NZers...

[Juju]

Come election time the economy is forecast to be booming. That'll be National's trump card.

[pxpx]

Can't wait for dem sweet, sweet tax cuts.

[aR Que]

Originally Posted by Juju

Come election time the economy is forecast to be booming. That'll be National's trump card.

I know labour folks will say they had no hand in it, and natty people will claim great success.

What say you, horse?

[Ab]

Well the referendum looks to have been exactly what it was - a political advertisement for the Greens and Labour, paid for by the taxpayer.

[IoriDyson]

The concept of asset sales just makes no sense to me, selling profit earning assets for a short term return (which turns out is a lot less then they were forecasting, ie air new zealand's sale) vs the constant returns... What am i missing here?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Well the referendum looks to have been exactly what it was - a political advertisement for the Greens and Labour, paid for by the taxpayer.

Which is all a non-binding citizen initiated referendum can really be.

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by IoriDyson

The concept of asset sales just makes no sense to me, selling profit earning assets for a short term return (which turns out is a lot less then they were forecasting, ie air new zealand's sale) vs the constant returns... What am i missing here?

wasnt the general idea that the interest of the money generated from the sale would be higher than the income from keeping the shares?

[Lightspeed]

I don't think anyone would pay more for shares than the return they'd expect from them.

I think the idea was paying our debts or some business? Or maybe just a general principal of the gubberment not owning stuff, cause it should be private folk getting rich, not the public.

[Spoon1]

Originally Posted by Ab

Well the referendum looks to have been exactly what it was - a political advertisement for the Greens and Labour, paid for by the taxpayer.

Not even that. I would simply class it a colossal waste of time and money.

Non-binding referendums should be aborted.

[ChaosWulf]

Originally Posted by Spoon1

Non-binding referendums should be aborted.

I'd rather find a way to make it binding.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by IoriDyson

The concept of asset sales just makes no sense to me, selling profit earning assets for a short term return (which turns out is a lot less then they were forecasting, ie air new zealand's sale) vs the constant returns... What am i missing here?

I guess you're missing quite a few bits of the puzzle. Three of them are:
1. You're not selling for a short-term gain; the idea is to sell the assets for their long-term value.
2. There's a cost of holding these assets and that's the opportunity-cost of what could otherwise be done with the money; does it really make sense to own an airline instead of a hospital?
3. Government run entities rarely live up to their free-market potential; how can you justify running these businesses in a sub-optimal way?

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by ChaosWulf

I'd rather find a way to make it binding.

I'd rather not have dumb people vote at all; both of our wishes will never be fulfilled.

[ChaosWulf]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

I'd rather not have dumb people vote at all; both of our wishes will never be fulfilled.

Awww, diddums

[Ab]

Labour's Mike Williams on the radio this morning (fwd to 19:10):

What Labour and the Greens have got out of this - which I would see as incredibly valuable, running an election campaign next year - is 350,000 email addresses. And that could be VERY valuable in a campaign.

There have you have it kids - the point of the referendum. Trawling for email addresses to spam for donations in election year.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by ChaosWulf

I'd rather find a way to make it binding.

Presumably you're cool with what the results of other CIRs would have forced the govt of the day to do, had they been binding?

[IoriDyson]

updated results via NZ Gazette

No: 920,188
Yes:442,985

Highest turn out: Otaki at 54.9%
Lowest turn out: Mangere & Manurewa at 30.7%

fun facts lol

[plaz0r]

It would be interesting to see how different the result would have been if the outcome HAD been binding.

Given the statements from the government prior to the referendum, nobody who supported the asset sales had any real reason to vote at all. And yet, 32% of the returns were still in favour.

[Deadmeat]

By the same token, nobody who opposed it had any real reason to respond either.

[Ab]

Exactly. A 9 million dollar exercise in sweet fuck all designed to get Labour and the Greens a marketing database.

[CCS]

Wouldn't be the first time LabGreen have pillaged a petition for a marketing database.

[Ab]

Criticism of the government was the lowest in the history of citizen-initiated referenda.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opi...ne-issue-polls

[IoriDyson]

I think its sad that no matter the response the government flat out refuses to even take it into account, after all its the people they are supposed to be representing. This third public showing of complete disregard for public opinion (gcsb + off shore drilling) may have repercussions for Nationals next election result. Or not...

Gah, both National and Labour are really poor representatives in the end. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is always a drag as its gonna be a bit shit regardless of who wins.

Hey Ab, tone it down mate.

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by IoriDyson

I think its sad that no matter the response the government flat out refuses to even take it into account, after all its the people they are supposed to be representing. This third public showing of complete disregard for public opinion (gcsb + off shore drilling) may have repercussions for Nationals next election result. Or not...

Gah, both National and Labour are really poor representatives in the end. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is always a drag as its gonna be a bit shit regardless of who wins.

Hey Ab, tone it down mate.

the way i would look at it, and the way the govt seems to be looking at it, is like this-

1. the only people who are going to vote in this are people who really care.
2. 40% of people care.
3. of those people who really care, 70% of them are against it
4. so thats like.... 30% of people who are opposed enough about this issue to bother posting a letter.
5. my math is very rough.

Of course they are dismissing it. its a fail. i was surprised as fuck that it got any people who dont oppose it to vote even, i was expecting such a self selecting poll to be like 90% against it. i was not surprised at the low turnout.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by IoriDyson

I think its sad that no matter the response the government flat out refuses to even take it into account, after all its the people they are supposed to be representing.

To take it into account would be to subvert the electoral process. There's only one time when you get personal input into Government policy and that's at an election. If the National Government were to change its asset-sales position now, in the middle of a term, that would be tantamount to saying "we lied before the election". Right now National is doing what it said before the election that it would do if it were elected. It can't start doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it said it would do if it were elected.

[blynk]

John Key played it smart.
Saying that they won't listen to the results because "only people opposed" with vote, and blubbering on about the $9m cost.
So basically people didn't both and started complaining about the cost, rather than going out to vote.

But WTF is $9m a waste of money? How many millions was paid to Analysts and marketers and whatever the fuck other costs that were paid to sell these. That $9m was probably just a drop in the bucket.

I would love to see where all this money is now going. No wonder their books look great. And the likely hood is that once the money from these 1 off sales are gone, Labour will be in power and National will complain about how bad the books look.
Fuck You National.

To me Helen Clarke was there cause she wanted to be there and it just seems John Key just wants to be there to say he was.

[BoyWonder]

I wonder how much it rustles Helen's jimmies that after all this time some people still think her surname is Clarke.

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by blynk

John Key played it smart.
Saying that they won't listen to the results because "only people opposed" with vote, and blubbering on about the $9m cost.
So basically people didn't both and started complaining about the cost, rather than going out to vote.

But WTF is $9m a waste of money? How many millions was paid to Analysts and marketers and whatever the fuck other costs that were paid to sell these. That $9m was probably just a drop in the bucket.

I would love to see where all this money is now going. No wonder their books look great. And the likely hood is that once the money from these 1 off sales are gone, Labour will be in power and National will complain about how bad the books look.
Fuck You National.

To me Helen Clarke was there cause she wanted to be there and it just seems John Key just wants to be there to say he was.

You sound mad

[blynk]

I R Mad

[Omegakai]

Originally Posted by Juju

Come election time the economy is forecast to be booming. That'll be National's trump card.

no comment.