The Christchurch EQC Benefits Truck Keeps on Rolling!

[cyc]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/rebu...for-boys-girls

The Earthquake Commission (EQC) has been accused of "jobs for the boys and girls" after employing the daughter of its claims manager at $75 an hour.

Nikki Kettle, who works as an assessor, for which she earns $180,000 a year ($75 an hour), plus allowances of up to $24,000, has also landed one of the sought-after assessing jobs next year.

These jobs will then return a slightly lower hourly rate of $55. Her mother, Gail Kettle, is the EQC claims manager.

The family is from the North Island.

EQC employs about 500 assessors and estimators and has selected about 100 of them to fill the positions in a slimmed-down work force next year. Staff were told whether they were successful on Monday.

Assessors are chosen for communication skills not for their building knowledge.

The appointment comes after revelations the EQC also employs Zac Stiven, the 19-year-old son of the commission's Canterbury events manager, Reid Stiven. Zac is employed as an assessor.

Matt Searle, the son of Barry Searle, also a senior manager, is employed as an estimator. It is not known whether Matt Searle and Zac Stiven have secured EQC positions for next year.

O FOR AWESOME

[Furry Crew]

Originally Posted by cyc

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/rebu...for-boys-girls



O FOR AWESOME

Sound like normal corporate practice to me....
Welcome to the real world ™

[wugambino]

Assessors are chosen for communication skills not for their building knowledge.

most worrying part of the article for me

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Furry Crew

Sound like normal corporate practice to me....
Welcome to the real world ™

Don't know what "corporate[s]" (assuming you are using the word "corporate" is a serious sense and not the usual NZ anything-more-than-a-one-man-company-is-a-corporate sense) you deal with but none that I work with do things like that.

[StN]

There is a cash cow being milked, and we're all paying for it. That said, I'd much rather have an building industry chap with dogey commercial acument assessing building damage over some bint with good communication skills.

But that's just me.

[fixed_truth]

Fuck this type of nepotistical hiring fucks me off.

I hope they all lose their jobs.

[cyc]

It's nepotistical alright. There's also the not-so-small issue of unqualified people being paid 180k a year.

[p-b]

Originally Posted by StN

There is a cash cow being milked, and we're all paying for it. That said, I'd much rather have an building industry chap with dogey commercial acument assessing building damage over some bint with good communication skills.

But that's just me.

It sounds like you're in a better mental state than many others may be though, so perhaps that is what they are keeping in mind when choosing to hire people based on communications skills.

Also...

They've got to get through n number of house assessments as fast as possible because the public are constantly holding them to task about the time being taken.

They may be paying "non-engineer" persons to do this work, but would they have to pay much more if they had to employ the same number of actual engineers?

In terms of the initial post, I thought finding work in any industry was always not just about "what you know but who you know", so why should this be different?

[p-b]

Also, just to clarify, I'm not saying it's acceptable, just trying to put some context on things.

(Just thought I'd mention this as a precursor to being self-righteously browbeaten by cyc)

[Torka]

Originally Posted by cyc

Don't know what "corporate[s]" (assuming you are using the word "corporate" is a serious sense and not the usual NZ anything-more-than-a-one-man-company-is-a-corporate sense) you deal with but none that I work with do things like that.

[Ab]

is she hot?

[doppelgänger of someone]

Based on her facebook page she is about average.

Protip to Nikki: turn everything to private NOW

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by wugambino

most worrying part of the article for me

Why?

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by StN

There is a cash cow being milked, and we're all paying for it. That said, I'd much rather have an building industry chap with dogey commercial acument assessing building damage over some bint with good communication skills.

But that's just me.

Yeah, EQC's running out of money and yet has been paying for full replasters and repaints for cracked plaster (this has changed recently I'm told) and then paying their assessors large amounts of money...

[Cynos]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chri...wage-bill-144m

Figures obtained by the Sunday Star-Times show the Earthquake Commission spent $144,528,907 on contracted assessors to inspect damage from September 4, 2010, until September 30 this year. The commission said it contracted 814 assessors in that time, 95 from Australia, meaning the $145.5m bill averaged out to more than $177,000 per assessor in just over a year.

Although the amount includes food, flights and accommodation costs for out-of-town assessors, it was much larger than the standard salary expectation.

Recruitment company Hays' 2011 salary guide listed the expected salary of an insurance loss assessor in Christchurch or Wellington at between $55,000 to $80,000 a year, with seniors expected to earn $70,000 to $100,000.

[Golden Teapot]

This is yet more evidence why working for the government is never a good idea.

I wonder if anyone who is complaining has thought about: how many hours these folk were working, the conditions they were working in, the fact they were away from home and not seeing family for weeks at a time, and so on.

[fidgit]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Why?

Because the article is suggesting that the children hired were hired for their 'communication skills', and family ties, rather than their engineering ability. Which, of course, you know, and you're fishing for a bite so you can tell us why it's more important that insurance assessors have good communication skills rather than a solid background in evaluating damage to buildings. (Though, again of course, the article doesn't say the kids *don't* have engineering backgrounds as well as good communication skills).

So, please, enlighten us.

(too snarky? I can't tell, my snark-detector turned off somewhere around 1 this morning, I'm just giving you a chance to inform really).

[Golden Teapot]

Or perhaps it's just not a job that particularly needs much prowess as an engineer? EQC think so, I think so, and I imagine many people will agree having taken a moment to reflect. Perhaps the key to seeing this is to first try to remember what it is that EQC does?

Having great communication skills though is essential. These folk get involved in intense situations with people in sometimes quite desperate situations; although less so going forward perhaps. Ninety five percent of the job is giving reassurance. The rest is completing a list on an iPad - something almost anyone having had a bit of practice could do.

Remember at the point the problem looks big a real assessor from a real insurance company gets involved. <----- This is a hint to help you think through you misconceptions. Apply this hint to the work you imagine EQC will have next year.

All you're seeing here is the press trying to drum up some tabloid-type sales. A better story would be to congratulate EQC on removing from their workforce the bitter people seeding the press the story.

And, yes I suspected my "why?" question would not be sufficient to trigger a self-driven reassessment of assumptions. Out of politeness I gave the chance though.

[fidgit]

Did you feel they were over-paid then, if they're only ticking lists? I'm not trying to down-play the importance of someone in this situation needing to be reassured, but why is it the eqc assessors role to do this? Are they actually a one-stop-shop for all post earthquake issues, rather than the person that decides if your property is sufficiently damaged to warrant further attention or financial support? It seems like you'd want someone that was pretty impartial doing the assessing, and being a councillour is going to make that harder, not easier.

You also noted the moment the problem "looks big" a real assessor gets involved. So, how much more expensive is a real assessor? And, who decides when the problem "looks big"? It's that same eqc assessor with little ability to assess a building beyond the most obvious issues. So, aren't they likely to miss underlying issues that someone with an engineering background should not? So, a wall torn in half gets noticed and passed along from the $75/hour assessor to the $150/hour assessor, but a building with unobvious structural damage gets missed because the eqc assessor doesn't know what to look for.

[Cynos]

I also enjoy the bit where the assessors all have iPads. Because there were no cheaper tablet computers available.

It worries me that Golden Teapot doesn't see why people might be concerned about what appears to be excessive spending in a levy-funded government organisation.

[tor]

Originally Posted by Cynos

...why people might be concerned about what appears to be excessive spending in a levy-funded government organisation.

People are going to complain regardless.

Hiring people with good communication skills probably results in more boring news coverage as they are only bitching that people are overpaid.

Now you get some awesome sperglord engineer in there saying things that are true in a brutally honest way with tons of cynicism and implied knowledge and you get news coverage of kiddies sleeping on the street. Probably with dirt on their faces, hopefully a few tears. Oh and christmas is on the way! Journalist all telling the kiddies santa won't be able to find them in the street while the photo guy snaps away.

Sperglord might be cheaper in salary but costs way more in reactive media spin.

Of course if the NZ media doesn't have a habit of putting out stories about any topic going which just happen to be negative and look to be designed to engender outrage I could be wrong.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by tor

People are going to complain regardless.

Sperglord might be cheaper in salary but costs way more in reactive media spin.

Remember they're not hiring engineers with good communication skills. They're just hiring people with good communication skills...

...like the school-leaver they hired (who happened to be related to someone who already worked there), who started on $55 - 75 an hour for having 'good communication skills'? They could hire three trained counsellors for the average amount that they've paid to each assessor over the last year, easily. (http://www.careers.govt.nz/default.a...0-d7a95063ede6)

[tor]

Originally Posted by Cynos

Remember they're not hiring engineers with good communication skills. They're just hiring people with good communication skills...

If there are no complaints about them not doing the job properly then I guess the people are doing the job correctly. I assume the media wouldn't miss that point if it was there. I'd guess there are engineers in the background, they are probably being over paid too.

In which case the complaint is they are paid too much for doing a competent job. I would say my point stands.

From a management point of view the media coverage appears to be within the bounds of expected and acceptable media bitching.

Nepotism is shitty if you are missing out on stuff because of it but, from my observation of working at a few places with massive nepotism going on, it is also a really good way of running a tyrannical system.

This kind of thing an internal tyranny is probably a good way of doing it. People hired through a fair and open system have opinions, cause strife and don't follow orders. People that know they are there at the whim of the glorious leader swallow their pride, shut up and do as they are told.

That results in a more coherent interface with the client. The clients in this case are under emotional strain and are not going to be rational. Any ambiguity in the interface will result in bad media.

And for the rest of NZ all that matters is the media.

[tor]

Oh I should point out that in a perfect world this wouldn't be a sensible way to approach it.

But in our world it seems to make a bit of sense.

Also of course I don't see NZ media so maybe there have been loads of stories about what a shitty job they are doing.

[Dazza]

Originally Posted by tor

If there are no complaints about them not doing the job properly then I guess the people are doing the job correctly.

I take it you don't know many people that live in Chch

[StN]

Entire server farms have been added to the Facebook hoard to accommodate the pages required...

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by tor

In which case the complaint is they are paid too much for doing a competent job. I would say my point stands.

As does my point - they're getting paid too much of our money. People say "Sure, but come on, it's only $144 million dollars in the scale of things, I mean all of Canterbury's EQC claims are estimated to cost $6.5b..."

...at which point I shake my head, because the moment you put the word 'only' in front of "X millions" you've lost contact with reality.

[tor]

Originally Posted by Cynos

As does my point - they're getting paid too much of our money. People say "Sure, but come on, it's only $144 million dollars in the scale of things, I mean all of Canterbury's EQC claims are estimated to cost $6.5b..."

...at which point I shake my head, because the moment you put the word 'only' in front of "X millions" you've lost contact with reality.

If the media got bad enough (here anyway) there would be a royal commission into it and that would chew up way more.

So overpaying people in a scheme where they present a coherent front and maintain a relatively decent media status is probably cheaper.

Like I say in an ideal world people would be paid what they are worth and everyone would behave rationally.

Looking for government (or corporate) waste and getting upset about it is going to make anyone upset all the time

[StN]

Originally Posted by tor

If the media got bad enough (here anyway) there would be a royal commission into it and that would chew up way more.

So overpaying people in a scheme where they present a coherent front and maintain a relatively decent media status is probably cheaper.

Like I say in an ideal world people would be paid what they are worth and everyone would behave rationally.

Yeah - Nah.

The only way I have managed to (potentially) get some traction (yet to be confirmed...) is by making in excess of 15 phone calls, and a sit down meeting with a mediator at EQC - in a church hall that housed two desks with interview staff, two monitors watching the staff, two tea ladies and a welcoming chap who listened intently, made sure we had an appointment, and kept offering us tea and biscuits (from the aforementioned tea ladies).

All that, just to get put on the right list for consideration for my claims. Only assessed twice for three events by EQC - not an iPad or laser level to be seen - old jokers with spirit levels and tape measures. And they took their time looking at the angles of the outside walls - to the point where I went out later trying to work out what they had seen - but it all tied in with how they explained the forces involved and the stronghest point being the staircase battering a wall.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by fidgit

Did you feel they were over-paid then, if they're only ticking lists?

Not really. These were short term jobs in extremely unpleasant circumstances with a serious lack of supply in the market. Such jobs always attract a premium but the premium does not last for long.

[StN]

Pretty sure there was a 1 square mile area of premium office space worth of out-of-work staff for a fair while there...

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Not really. These were short term jobs in extremely unpleasant circumstances

Yes, how dreadful, staying in a motel in Riccarton driving around Christchurch. How ghastly...

...if you were talking about SAR staff, or emergency services, or medical staff, or Victim Support, sure, extremely unpleasant circumstances, some absolutely awful things that they had to deal with.

But EQC assesssors? Going house to house tapping on an iPad? Please, it's obvious that you have confused Christchurch with Haiti.

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

with a serious lack of supply in the market. Such jobs always attract a premium but the premium does not last for long.

Yeah, nah, not really. If they're hiring school leavers from the North Island, well golly, we've got heaps of those too!

Also, $75 per hour to $55 is not a removal of a premium. $55 p/h is still a premium for a job that requires no specialist knowledge.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Cynos

Remember they're not hiring engineers with good communication skills.

They don't need to be engineers. Bear in mind that a very significant part of the time taken to inspect each property is taken up speaking to the owner and offering them a shoulder to lean on.

What also went on was: surveys were done without anyone knowing - the earliest surveys of damage were done like this so that the survey could be completed rather than losing time talking to people, and sometimes a two person tactic was employed - one to chat to the owner (a less skilled person) and another to do the job they were there for.

EQC ordinarily has no staff to speak of. They had to go and hire, train and deploy hundreds of people very quickly into what was essentially a war zone where staff had to work 70+ hours per week for months. As a desperate employer the employees had the upper hand in the negotiations and they all won in the short term.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

They don't need to be engineers. Bear in mind that a very significant part of the time taken to inspect each property is taken up speaking to the owner and offering them a shoulder to lean on.
.

And as I said, trained counselors would've been significantly cheaper even if you doubled market rates.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by Cynos

If they're hiring school leavers from the North Island, well golly, we've got heaps of those too!

You could have applied for one of the roles yourself - they had enormous difficulty getting enough people. People from around the world were taken in.

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

You could have applied for one of the roles yourself - they had enormous difficulty getting enough people. People from around the world were taken in.

I prefer to stick with my career I love and my employer who has shown me exceeding amounts of trust and loyalty, but thanks for the idea.

Yeah, about that "extreme difficulty", sure. That's why they hired a whole bunch of ex-cops from Aussie after the September earthquake. Apparently we have no ex-cops in New Zealand.

[aR Que]

seems topical: I know a few engineers, as you can imagine. That's tertiary qualified, experienced fullahs.
Girl i know got an admin job, she's 'unskilled, unqualified', she gets paid more than all of the lads I know, half of which are in charge of multi million (doesn't take much) dollar jobs.

*shrug*
Can't make $ in NZ as an eng, why we all leave

[Cynos]

Originally Posted by aR Que

seems topical: I know a few engineers, as you can imagine. That's tertiary qualified, experienced fullahs.
Girl i know got an admin job, she's 'unskilled, unqualified', she gets paid more than all of the lads I know, half of which are in charge of multi million (doesn't take much) dollar jobs.

*shrug*
Can't make $ in NZ as an eng, why we all leave

Admin job with EQC? Or just in general?

[Mojo]

As a bottom-feeder in the job market, the kind the battles for a minimum wage job, I can only laugh and smile.

[p-b]

Originally Posted by aR Que

seems topical: I know a few engineers, as you can imagine. That's tertiary qualified, experienced fullahs.
Girl i know got an admin job, she's 'unskilled, unqualified', she gets paid more than all of the lads I know, half of which are in charge of multi million (doesn't take much) dollar jobs.

*shrug*
Can't make $ in NZ as an eng, why we all leave

To be honest, I've read the above post several times and I am not entirely sure what he's actually saying.

And someone was saying something about engineers and communication skills?