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Old 1st November 2021, 17:19     #2041
xor
 
Quote:
You think your characterisations are any more helpful?
Specifically?

Quote:
4/10 kiwis having less than $1k in their account isn't something that just happened. It's a function of the neolib trickle down economics which are a complete scam.
No, it's a failure of successive NZ governments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolspeed
Money is for people with money
wow, how poetic. Another redundant sentence eh, Jeremy?
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Old 1st November 2021, 20:06     #2042
Lightspeed
 
facepalm

Keep on raging, that's obviously the only tool you have in the tool box.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 1st November 2021 at 20:07.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 00:31     #2043
Nich
 
Report: How Pfizer Silences World Governments in Vaccine Negotiations
https://www.citizen.org/news/report-...-negotiations/

Quote:
The report outlines how Pfizer consistently utilizes six tactics to leverage power against governments worldwide. First, Pfizer silences governments through the use of nondisclosure provisions in many of its contracts. Brazil, for example, is prohibited from making “any public announcement concerning the existence… or terms” of the contract or commenting on its relationship with Pfizer without Pfizer’s prior written consent. Second, Pfizer can disallow governments from accepting additional donations of the Pfizer vaccine.

Third, Pfizer exempts itself from liability for intellectual property infringements, shifting the financial risk of Pfizer’s actions to government purchasers – despite Pfizer’s opposition to similar exemptions for manufacturers proposed at the World Trade Organization. Fourth, it gives the power to secret private arbitrators, not public courts, to decide issues on contract disputes. Fifth, Pfizer requires some countries to waive sovereign immunity, so it can go after state assets in case of a dispute. Finally, Pfizer gives itself sole power when it comes to making key decisions, including how vaccine deliveries will be prioritized if there is a supply shortage.

pure. evil.

May explain why every other vaccine has "bad press", while Pfizer niggles are crickets.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 01:12     #2044
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
You guys are lol. I'm hanging out with my cross section of society that doesn't give a fuck about the rules.

We be living, you be fearing.

It's a mix, but its a mix, after the fact.

We just had a big party with people from...places. Is anyone caring? Net. Molodets, OBEY
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Old 2nd November 2021, 01:14     #2045
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
If you're a single bank account m0f0, with less than 10k, shame.

If you don't have multiple bank accounts with 10k+, I don't actually care.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 02:14     #2046
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Lol “bank accounts”, wake up sheep
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Old 2nd November 2021, 02:41     #2047
Lightspeed
 
Laugh

lolz, how do you go from gloating about not caring about the rules to gloating about your bank accounts? Could you have any less awareness?
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Old 2nd November 2021, 02:43     #2048
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
Report: How Pfizer Silences World Governments in Vaccine Negotiations
Sounds like bullshit. Perhaps accurate, but also well within norms. I would be interested tho in analysis from somewhere reputable. Preferably something without "citizen" in the title, it just seems one step away from sovereign citizen.

I haven't actually heard bad press about any of the vaccines, aside from the limits of their effectiveness, which includes Pfizer.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 09:00     #2049
Nich
 
Guardian, ABC have reported on it if that helps.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 11:07     #2050
Nich
 
Prediction 2 (not my own, but something I see happening):
Lockdown for COVID will very soon become lockdown for climate. It took 400 private jets flying to Glasgow to come up with this idea to save the world.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 14:48     #2051
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
Guardian, ABC have reported on it if that helps.
I read the ABC article, which was reporting on the Citizen article. Kinda just said "maybe it's this, maybe it's that", leaves the reader to draw their own conclusions.

My conclusion was: normal bullshit.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 15:05     #2052
Nich
 
if these kinds of contracts are normal, can we agree on moral grounds that it shouldn't be normal?
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Old 2nd November 2021, 15:30     #2053
Lightspeed
 
o_O

Well, what are your feelings on bullshit?

I've said more than once that the better approach would be enabling large scale production of these vaccines so that we can quickly vaccinate the entire world, but we won't cause that would undermine our systems of keeping money in the right hands. However that's far from limited to vaccines or medicine. We're burning the world so a tiny few of us get to enjoy their cash.

So in this case I'm not sure there's anything especially wrong. It's like, yes, that horrible creepy pedophile on the news is disgusting and awful, they deserve all the punishment... but the high energy we have for hating on them is misplaced when we lack the energy to address the deeper issues which allow children to be exploited in volume.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 15:56     #2054
Nich
 
Totally with you and agree we should move to anarchy as soon as possible to address the underlying problem.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 16:26     #2055
Lightspeed
 
Well, that's the jam we're in right? Keeping billions of us fed does require complex systems. We can't just tear it all down, and efforts of reform evoke the ire of groups both capable and willing to whip up the volume of us who are struggling with day-to-day concerns.

Evidence of this is the volume of people suddenly concerned about vaccines when previously they were a normal thing you put up with if you wanted to travel internationally or keep your kids safe from the measles.

The best we can do sometimes is avoid buying into the hype.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 16:38     #2056
Nich
 
If we can't reform because vested interests, we will never vote in a leader that could even dream of reform. The only option left is to burn it the fuck down.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 16:39     #2057
Lightspeed
 
Maybe that's true. It's a long fucking way down tho. If it comes to that, I hope to die in the first wave. If not, first step: join a gang, get used to killing or sucking dick.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 16:43     #2058
Nich
 
It can be peaceful. And the more peacefully we opt out, the more violent governments will become. The more violent governments become, the less people will be on board with their bullshit. The less people on board with their bullshit, the smaller their influence and power.
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Old 2nd November 2021, 19:02     #2059
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
If we can't reform because vested interests, we will never vote in a leader that could even dream of reform. The only option left is to burn it the fuck down.
Or leave. That’s the simplest and best option. Just go somewhere less shit.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 09:25     #2060
Nich
 
Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

Quote:
One photo, provided to The BMJ, showed needles discarded in a plastic biohazard bag instead of a sharps container box. Another showed vaccine packaging materials with trial participants’ identification numbers written on them left out in the open, potentially unblinding participants. Ventavia executives later questioned Jackson for taking the photos.

Early and inadvertent unblinding may have occurred on a far wider scale. According to the trial’s design, unblinded staff were responsible for preparing and administering the study drug (Pfizer’s vaccine or a placebo). This was to be done to preserve the blinding of trial participants and all other site staff, including the principal investigator. However, at Ventavia, Jackson told The BMJ that drug assignment confirmation printouts were being left in participants’ charts, accessible to blinded personnel.

...

Pfizer has hired Ventavia as a research subcontractor on four other vaccine clinical trials (covid-19 vaccine in children and young adults, pregnant women, and a booster dose, as well an RSV vaccine trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
pure. evil.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 15:34     #2061
Lightspeed
 
I might normally find that convincing, but in an anti-vax climate like this, I need a much higher standard of evidence. Like regulatory bodies stepping in and holding the company to account. It's not like Pfizer is the only vaccine out there.

I'm not buying what's being sold. The price is far too high.

Also... short some conspiracy, the vaccine works. Hospitals would have to be lying about unvaccinated people being the bulk of those being hospitalised. Which would be directly against their interests.
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Last edited by Lightspeed : 3rd November 2021 at 15:36.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 16:18     #2062
Nich
 
Pfizer's vaccine works (with waning effect over course of weeks) and they cheated their Phase 3 clinical trials with FDA in cahoots. They spun the barrel and pulled the trigger and we got lucky.
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Last edited by Nich : 3rd November 2021 at 16:19.
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Old 5th November 2021, 09:33     #2063
Nich
 
NIH OFFICIALS WORKED WITH ECOHEALTH ALLIANCE TO EVADE RESTRICTIONS ON CORONAVIRUS EXPERIMENTS

https://theintercept.com/2021/11/03/...th-nih-emails/


Quote:
Daszak responded to the NIH on June 8, 2016, arguing that, because EcoHealth Alliance’s proposed hybrid viruses were significantly different from the SARS virus, which was already known to infect humans, the experiments were not gain-of-function research and should not be restricted.

Daszak also pointed out that WIV1, the parent of the proposed chimeric SARS-like viruses, “has never been demonstrated to infect humans or cause human disease,” according to the transcribed emails. And he said that previous research “strongly suggests that the chimeric bat spike/bat backbone viruses should not have enhanced pathogenicity in animals.” The NIH would go on to accept these arguments.

Big brain time: It's not illegal Gain of Function if it hasn't escaped the lab. Also, we don't call it GoF, we call it “Potential Pandemic Pathogen Care and Oversight,” or P3CO and we totally didn't just make that up.


Another case of the tail (EcoHealth Alliance) wagging the dog (Fauci's NIH).
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Old 5th November 2021, 13:42     #2064
Nich
 
furthermore

https://republicans-energycommerce.h...ter-to-NIH.pdf

Quote:
EcoHealth portrayed the risks of these experiments as if they were not of concern, and the NIH accepted EcoHealth’s assertions without a searching inquiry. However, the assessment of the risks by both EcoHealth and the NIH do not seem to square with the understanding of the research risks at that time. Although the engineered viruses at the WIV were far from SARS CoV-2 on the coronavirus family tree, this research reflected a high tolerance for risk.3 As noted by Stanford University microbiologist David Relman, “[The WIV] were essentially playing Russian roulette with the virus that the world’s expert had labelled poised for human emergence. It’s the willingness to manipulate them without due concern.”

...

Following an initial grant termination in April 2020, NIH reinstated the grant and then suspended the grant in July 2020 because of EcoHealth’s inadequate oversight of the WIV. When NIH asked EcoHealth to provide information related to its subaward to the WIV, EcoHealth refused to comply with most of the requests. Despite EcoHealth’s unwillingness to cooperate, NIH paid an additional $369,819 to EcoHealth on July 13, 2020, a mere five days after its grant was suspended.


Place your bets. Will Fauci resign over knowingly funding the potential creation of a pandemic, or that he sanctioned experiments torturing puppies? If it was me, I'd make a teary speech about how sorry I am to those puppies.
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Old 5th November 2021, 13:56     #2065
Lightspeed
 
You need to lay off the spice, bruh. Your brain is getting pickled.

Seriously, what good is all this doing you?
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Old 5th November 2021, 14:52     #2066
Nich
 
It confirms the rot goes right to the top / core, and that the regulatory cavalry is not coming. It confirms that we are best served building our world for ourselves instead of waiting for checks and balances to clear out the cancer.
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Old 5th November 2021, 15:25     #2067
Lightspeed
 
So... be the change you want to see in the world?

I think a mistake is to imagine it as something "other". It's not even simply corruption. It's more about how concentration of power, which is often necessary, tends to focus the application of that power, which inevitably means some things get squashed, other things enjoy too much freedom.

It's about the human condition in general, it's about entropy. It's not so much about bad people doing bad things.

It's also a mistake to chase this stuff down to the nth degree. You'll just make yourself miserable and stressed. If you really want to get into something like this, do it proper. Get an education, do endless reading, get field experience, develop your authority. Spinning your wheels this way will just burn you out.

Maybe I was "lucky" and saw this shit early on. It's a lack of empathy on my part with your experience of discovering it in this way.

Well, that's what I think, right or wrong, there's only so much we can do. Enjoy what we can, suffer what we must.
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Old 5th November 2021, 17:35     #2068
Nich
 
It's becoming more and more entertainment for me these days, rather than an area I see myself reforming. Like, Ab said: Exit is preferrable to staying and fighting. I do enjoy a good disgraceful resignation.

I was sad and stressed before medical aparthied, but now we're in medical aparthied and not a single shop or cafe is doing the government's dirty work. I'll bet those shops that do quickly realise they're losing customers because of it. This fills me with optimism.
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Old 5th November 2021, 21:25     #2069
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
In his account of the 1918 pandemic, The Great Influenza, John Barry writes, “If there is a single dominant lesson from 1918, it’s that governments need to tell the truth in a crisis. ‘Risk communication’ implies managing the truth. You don’t manage the truth. You tell the truth.” During the pandemic, our public health establishment has been in the spotlight like never before, and this has exposed its penchant for “risk communication” (bending the truth), which has damaged its reputation at a time when we urgently need to be able to trust our public health experts and institutions.
Some harsh truths in this good but brutal article:

https://areomagazine.com/2021/10/25/...us-white-lies/
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Old 6th November 2021, 13:46     #2070
Lightspeed
 
Makes sense. One challenge is that sometimes the full truth involves several pages of text, if not a small library. But yeah, I think even in cases where the truth might cost some lives where it's misinterpreted, in the long run it's better to have that reservoir of trust that can be tapped into in times of need.
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Old 6th November 2021, 17:45     #2071
Lightspeed
 
Aucklanders can travel over summer: 'That's a commitment' - PM
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Old 7th November 2021, 07:27     #2072
blynk
 
It must be a ploy to get the rest of the country vaccinated.

Watch out NZ, the dirty aucklanders are going to spreading their germs to a town near you this summer
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Old 7th November 2021, 10:14     #2073
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
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Old 7th November 2021, 14:29     #2074
StN
I have detailed files
 
Just
Another
Fluey
Aucklander...
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Old 7th November 2021, 15:48     #2075
MadMax
Stuff
 
Always gonna have haters.
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Old 8th November 2021, 14:52     #2076
fixed_truth
 
Covid-19: Pasifika and Māori communities 'not ready' for alert level changes
Between a rock and a hard place.
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Old 8th November 2021, 15:29     #2077
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
It's easy to spot the difference in message clarity between a health campaign written by communications professionals, and a political campaign written by party staffers.

Compare:

Quote:
"stay home, save lives"
Quote:
"the Prime Minister has mooted an in-principle decision for Auckland to move to step 2 of alert level 3"
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Old 8th November 2021, 15:34     #2078
Lightspeed
 
Hahaha, oof.
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Old 9th November 2021, 16:36     #2079
Lightspeed
 
Sue Grey is awful, but thanks to her we now have a legal judgement as to whether the vaccine is experimental or not:

Quote:
Ms Grey argued that the Order also limited other fundamental rights under the Bill of Rights, including:

(a) the right not to be deprived of life under s 8;

(b) the right of freedom of thought conscience and religion under s 13;

(c) the right of freedom of expression under s 14; and

(d) the right not to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation under s 10.

The argument that those rights are limited by the Order can largely be rejected out of hand. Of these only the argument that the right under s 10 not to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation is engaged justifies closer analysis.

The primary basis for arguing that this right is limited by the Order is that the consent to the Pfizer vaccine under the Medicines Act 1981 has only been granted on a provisional basis, and it is subject to a number of conditions. Ms Grey argued that vaccination amounted to an experimental treatment on the basis that a number of further steps are required under the provisional consent and a number of these matters would normally have been attended to before a full consent was granted.

I do not accept this argument for two reasons.

First, as Mr Powell submitted, the concept of experimentation in s 10 requires an intervention which aims to lead to a new standard of treatment or to advance knowledge. By contrast, medical treatment is characterised by its therapeutic aim, and connotes an existing measure used by healthcare professionals in treating or preventing illness.The vaccine is a new treatment for a new virus. But it is plain that the vaccine has been approved and used here for therapeutic, not experimental, purposes.

Secondly, I do not accept Ms Grey’s submission that the fact that the consent given to the Pfizer vaccine was provisional means that it is experimental. Evidence was provided by Christopher James, the Group Manager of New Zealand Medicines at Medsafe. His evidence establishes that the vaccine has been through a rigorous assessment of its efficacy and safety. To require it to go through the procedures that would be required for full consent would take time, and there was an urgent need to make the vaccine available once it had been assessed as safe and effective. This does not mean that the vaccine is experimental, or that there is material concern about its availability.
https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/asset...-NZHC-3012.pdf
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Old 9th November 2021, 20:34     #2080
The Edge
 
I hope that cost her a lot of money, to find that out (and also to lose that case).
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