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Old 30th November 2021, 15:04     #2161
smudge
Ich Bin Ein Grey Lynner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edge
On the loose now I'd guess: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-...ered/100661108
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Old 30th November 2021, 21:01     #2162
blynk
 
Well it will be interesting if it pans out to what they are hoping.
A less severe version of covid that will push out Delta
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Old 30th November 2021, 21:43     #2163
MadMax
Stuff
 
This is not the endgame I was expecting
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Old 1st December 2021, 12:03     #2164
crocos
 
Coats & Hats

LOL
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Old 1st December 2021, 15:40     #2165
Lightspeed
 
Thumbs up

Now I want tacos.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 07:01     #2166
StN
I have detailed files
 
Posted here for Ab...

Vax the Nation.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 08:42     #2167
Nich
 
let's check in with team sensible:

https://twitter.com/berniespofforth/...263366150?s=21

Increase in SIDS in 3...2...1...
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Old 2nd December 2021, 09:38     #2168
Nich
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...tential-cases/

Quote:
Latest figures show 5.9 million people waiting - around a 10th of the population.

The NAO estimates that between 7.6 million and 9.1 million fewer referrals for treatment were made during the pandemic, because of difficulties accessing care and fears of catching the virus.

It estimated that if 50 per cent of missing referrals returned to the NHS, and activity grew in line with pre-pandemic expectations, the waiting list would reach 12 million by March 2025.

Has the fear and lockdowns created a net better health outcome for UK? Let's say in 2025 only 10% of people with undiagnosed cancer die (I'm being generous), on balance can public health authorities really claim their policies have saved 1.2 million (82 year olds) who would have died from COVID? Even if they can claim that, they will be remembered only as sacrificing the young to save the old.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 16:51     #2169
Nich
 
Bangledesh just recorded first day of pandemic with zero COVID deaths. Japan cases and deaths dropping since August. annnd most of Africa has had bugger all COVID cases & deaths.

What do these countries have in common?
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Old 2nd December 2021, 16:56     #2170
Lightspeed
 
As soon as I hear the word "fear" I hear someone promoting an agenda.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 18:26     #2171
Nich
 
Why did a good chunk of the population neglect to keep up with their check ups, if not fear of clinics and hospitals?
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Old 2nd December 2021, 18:30     #2172
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
Bangledesh just recorded first day of pandemic with zero COVID deaths. Japan cases and deaths dropping since August. annnd most of Africa has had bugger all COVID cases & deaths.

What do these countries have in common?
BMI
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Old 2nd December 2021, 18:44     #2173
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
Why did a good chunk of the population neglect to keep up with their check ups, if not fear of clinics and hospitals?
Maybe the line of thought was "there are others more in need of these services right now"?

We could have of course just treated the pandemic like a Tuesday, blamed our clogged up health services and morgues on immigrants or whatever the bogeyman du jour was.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 21:22     #2174
Nich
 
In the UK the messaging was "Stay home, protect the NHS", so yes some would have thought others needed the help more than they did, and they were indeed encouraged to do so. The implication being that them seeking medical check ups might over burden the health services.

The messaging was very strong and effective, but it's been almost 2 years now and I think they are yet to say "OK, hospitals can handle it now!". Even with the mild new variant the over-burdened health services meme was refreshed anew.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 22:08     #2175
Lightspeed
 
Well, I think that's just the Tories.
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Old 3rd December 2021, 17:24     #2176
Nich
 
here come the 2nd order consequences...
Up to 300,000 people facing heart-related illnesses due to post-pandemic stress disorder, warn physicians
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/300-000-pe...uumEAVVBQKn3iO


oh, and this...
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads...experience.pdf
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Old 3rd December 2021, 17:39     #2177
Lightspeed
 
According to the opinion of two London physicians, eh?

Aren't you concerned about the fear these physicians are drumming up?
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Old 3rd December 2021, 19:31     #2178
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Aren't you concerned about the fear these physicians are drumming up?
Don't be silly, it's only bad if it's nothing to do with the narrative I'm promoting.
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Old 4th December 2021, 10:18     #2179
fixed_truth
 
Great to see the vaccination passport in place. When covid starts getting loose around the country a bit more it will be great if the criteria is broadened to include more businesses, something like only business open to the public during level 4 will be exempt.
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Old 4th December 2021, 17:47     #2180
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Aren't you concerned about the fear these physicians are drumming up?
I'm concerned they are attributing anxiety / nervous disorders to something intuitively obvious (fear of virus, lockdown isolation) when these also happen to be the most common adverse reaction to vaccine (see Pfizer post market report Dec2020 to Feb 2021)

Fixed Truth, Germany has gone full Science to defeat COVID. Mandatory N95 masks, vaccine passport, social distancing. They're flattening the curve, so i guess it works.
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Old 4th December 2021, 18:10     #2181
Lightspeed
 
o_O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
I'm concerned they are attributing anxiety / nervous disorders to something intuitively obvious (fear of virus, lockdown isolation) when these also happen to be the most common adverse reaction to vaccine (see Pfizer post market report Dec2020 to Feb 2021)
You're afraid of the impact of fear? Fear being something that's intuitively obvious to you? Or you're concerned that a couple of physicians might be exploiting fear to increase their profile?
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Old 6th December 2021, 09:57     #2182
Nich
 
I won't deny people are trying to enlarge their influence by offering panaceas. The most intuituve solutions seem to be winning out to explain / manage the weirdness abound in this pandemic. I think we can all agree thinking fast on such a complex global event is not helping, and people who put solutions in place have been reluctant to change when something doesn't work out as advertised. (typical response being "Imagine how bad it would have been if we DIDN'T do this!?", or "It didn't work because some people didn't pull their weight. Shame them!")

So yes, some things stink about this pandemic and there's no good answers yet (like more heart attacks and strokes in 2021 vs 2020). But yet we lurch at and act on the first shitty solution thinking it's easy to swap out for a better solution / understanding.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem but laws and policies are being pushed through based on our current response before we know if it's actually working. Vaccine passports, for instance, scare the shit out of me. The vaccines don't stop transmission, but the vaccine passport certifies you can freely move through society. To me, it looks like one big obedience / loyalty test rather than good public health policy.
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Old 6th December 2021, 18:12     #2183
Lightspeed
 
I don't see it. We were all obedient to the almighty dollar long before the pandemic. There's no need for any test. That's why kiwis move to Australia, isn't it?

Funny thing about NZ is, we don't got all that cash, but we've done so fucking well fading the worst of the pandemic.
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Old 6th December 2021, 18:26     #2184
Cyberbob
 
Visiting New Zealand's Biggest Antivax Protest

No sound bites, no 'got ya' questions, just views & opinions. Good to see.
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Old 7th December 2021, 14:38     #2185
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
ďIf it was the business community, or Rotarians, or a group of farmers helping the police, they would be lauded by the community, but because itís Māori itís characterised as lawlessness and I really reject that,Ē he said.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/polit...s-kelvin-davis
Well he's not wrong.
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Old 8th December 2021, 14:44     #2186
Nich
 
Vaccine Mediated Evolution confirmed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34873910/

Quote:
By tracking the evolutionary trajectories of vaccine-resistant mutations in more than 2.2 million SARS-CoV-2 genomes, we reveal that the occurrence and frequency of vaccine-resistant mutations correlate strongly with the vaccination rates in Europe and America.

The higher the vaccination rate, the higher the daily cases.
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Old 8th December 2021, 14:48     #2187
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Mutations, not cases.
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Old 8th December 2021, 15:00     #2188
Nich
 
Mutations AND cases. pick any country with high vaccination rate and check their cases.

Geert Vanden Bossche called it mid last year.
https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/6160...pen-letter.pdf
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Old 8th December 2021, 15:04     #2189
Lightspeed
 
Can you explain that one further? Use New Zealand as an example.
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Old 8th December 2021, 15:32     #2190
The Edge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
The higher the vaccination rate, the higher the daily cases.
We have a fairly high vaccination rate (almost 90% two jabs) but our cases seem to be slowly trending down.
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Old 8th December 2021, 15:32     #2191
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
Mutations AND cases.
That doesnít seem to be what the article says.
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Old 8th December 2021, 15:33     #2192
Cyberbob
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich
pick any country with high vaccination rate and check their cases.
I went through a lot of effort to collate this data, because I questioned your statement at face value, but wanted to educate myself, as I'm happy to change my point of view based on new evidence.

This is what i found just by picking three very obvious countries.

United States





United Kingdom





New Zealand






https://imgur.com/a/AdadJ3v

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/
Timeframe: 1st Jan 2021 - latest date available

Now, I want you to look at that data, and tell me how on earth you came to the conclusion that 'The higher the vaccination rate, the higher the daily cases.'

I genuinely want to know what data you looked at to get to that conclusion.
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Old 8th December 2021, 16:03     #2193
Nich
 
I was more looking at European countries because they all have community spread, and have implemented the trifector of public health recommendations according to Science. That is N95 masks, vaccine passports, lockdowns / curfews.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers... B~DEU~FRA~AUT


The promise was that the interventions will work, in Europe they are giving these interventions a red hot go and it doesn't make a dent.
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Old 8th December 2021, 16:11     #2194
blynk
 
I do believe you would be better off with an accumulative vaccination chart, or total % of population vaccinated.

Comparing daily cases to daily vaccinations is not very relevant.

Other interesting graphs would be
Daily cases split by Vax vs UnVax. Now as the total % vax goes up, then those cases should increase, but I think you will find that a lot of the daily cases are still unvax.

So an interesting stat there would then be
- Daily cases of unvax / total unvax population
- Daily cases of vax / total vax population.

I think you would then see an interesting trend between the 2 that would tell a completely different story than what Nich is trying to get at.
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Old 8th December 2021, 16:13     #2195
blynk
 
Then you want to overlay things like Seasons and restrictions.
Cases (predominately) will go up when restrictions are lifted.
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Old 8th December 2021, 16:14     #2196
Lightspeed
 
Devil grin

Shut up nerd.
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Old 8th December 2021, 16:17     #2197
Nich
 
For shits and giggles, here is Sweden vs their neighbours

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers... E~DNK~NLD~CHE

Sweden chose not to impose any mandatory intervenions. People chose their own strategies (masks, isolation, vaccine).
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Old 8th December 2021, 16:21     #2198
Nich
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blynk
So an interesting stat there would then be
- Daily cases of unvax / total unvax population
- Daily cases of vax / total vax population. .
Yes! Why is it so hard to get this information?

And not just for cases. But hospitalisations and deaths.
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Old 8th December 2021, 17:28     #2199
Lightspeed
 
I think the data is there, you just gotta extrapolate in some cases.
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Old 8th December 2021, 17:45     #2200
Nich
 
The closest I've seen to full transparency on this comparison is the UK Weekly Vaccine Surveillance Report



Page 22 from here:
https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_week_45.pdf
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