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Old 1st April 2018, 12:54     #1
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Prime Minister Peters

Ardern:

Quote:
“I have sought advice from the Cabinet Office about the proper governance arrangements during my parental leave.

The Cabinet Office has advised that a Minister is normally only appointed Acting Prime Minister when the Prime Minister is out of the country. There is no precedent to have both a Prime Minister and Acting Prime Minister in the country at the same time.

To avoid any confusion, Cabinet has decided that during my parental leave the Rt Hon Winston Peters will be sworn in as the 41st Prime Minister of New Zealand.”
Oh Christ
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Old 1st April 2018, 14:00     #2
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Your mistake was posting this in OD
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Old 10th April 2018, 15:35     #3
[BT]MikeMan
 
Ohhh I would be feeling REALLY secure if I was the Greens right now.

NOT!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10th April 2018, 17:58     #4
StN
I have detailed files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [BT]MikeMan
Ohhh I would be feeling REALLY secure if I was the Greens right now.

NOT!!!!!!!!!
That new co-leader is on a hiding to nothing - each reporter probing as much as they can to trip her up Turiana style.
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Old 10th April 2018, 23:50     #5
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
quick I'm lost wtf is Turiana style?
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:15     #6
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Perhaps he means Metiria Turei?
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Old 12th April 2018, 11:03     #7
blynk
 
All those bloody Maori women are the same. easy mistake to make.
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Old 27th July 2018, 11:12     #8
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
I see PM Peters now has the numbers for his awful “waka jumping” bill thanks to some gutless hypocrisy from the Greens.
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Old 27th July 2018, 12:29     #9
Lightspeed
 
What's the extent of the bill?

I get that in the past political movement in NZ has been spurred by members splitting from thier party (with the changes ultimately being absorbed by the larger parties and the smaller vanishing.) It sounds like this bill undermines that.

I also understand that with MMP we're voting for a party and its hierarchy, which raises the question of whether members splitting from a party should retain their position. Unless they specifically won their seat.

But there are layers to all this that are beyond me.
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Old 27th July 2018, 14:44     #10
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Under the bill, lawmakers who quit or are expelled from their party would also be ejected from Parliament.

Electorate MPs could seek to win their way back in through a by-election.
Also to boot someone a party needs two-thirds caucus support.

I haven't read up that much but going by news articles I don't see a problem.
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Old 27th July 2018, 14:59     #11
blynk
 
I haven't understood the issue and feel the same.

For list. When I vote for a party, I am not specifically voting for number 22 or 34 or 41.
I wouldnt have a fucking clue who they are.

If they leave the party for whatever reason, then they should be gone.

For the Electoral Seat, I am not sure how I feel if they should be kicked and require a By election, or whether they should be allowed to stay.
As people voted for that person (although they probably mostly won because of what party they belong to.
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Old 27th July 2018, 15:46     #12
pxpx
 
Ab can you please learn us on this waka jumping bill and why its bad
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Old 27th July 2018, 17:54     #13
Lightspeed
 
The Greens speak to the problem with the bill somewhat.

Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson on Waka Jumping Bill: We have to compromise

If National hadn't been so brutal for the people the Greens are most concerned about, maybe they'd have a choice. I suppose you might argue if they were more canny politicians they would have found a way to oppose the bill. But circumstances are what they are.

Still, it would be good to hear more on the bill from the fullas here smart enough to have lectured at uni.
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Old 27th July 2018, 18:19     #14
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
If National hadn't been so brutal for the people the Greens are most concerned about, maybe they'd have a choice.
I don't see anything in that article describing what you've just said. Maybe you can explain?
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Old 27th July 2018, 18:35     #15
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Those who aren't certain why a ban on waka jumping is bad (and anti-democratic) should think not just about the formation of the Green Party but also the Maori Party. Turiana Turia left Labour over differences over the Seabed and Foreshore Bill. Because a waka jumping ban was in place at the time, she had to quit parliament and a by-election was held (at cost to the taxpayer) to vote on her now empty Maori electorate seat. She was voted back in and from this, the Maori Party was born. But consider what would have happened if she hadn't been voted back in. No Maori Party, and a parliament less representative of voters (the point of MMP is to be more representative of voters). No party representing the voice of Maori people (Labour does a shit job of representing Maori).

Turia took the risk of not being returned to Parliament because she believed strongly enough in her position that she left the Labour Party. Not every politician would have the courage of conviction to do such a thing and therefore would not be willing to disagree with their party leaders, lest they lose their job.

Why is this anti-democratic? Because an electorate MP is voted in not just because of the party they belong to, but also because they are representing the community in that electorate. If the party leaders take a position on something that works against that community, then the MP can do little to oppose it. That's bad for that electorate.
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
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Old 27th July 2018, 22:53     #16
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/27...etter-options/
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Old 28th July 2018, 00:31     #17
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
The far scarier thing is that Labour and now the Green Party are willing to sign away their souls in their pursuit for power.
For power, yes. But power for New Zealanders rather than over them. National were screwing over the vulnerable of NZ. Hard. It seems in either case the Greens had a rat to eat. Either National's or NZF's. And the voters of NZ put them in that position.

I'm glad they made the choice they did. There's no way National would have won a fifth term and they would have known it. They would have gone for broke and we'd have been screwed.
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Old 28th July 2018, 02:55     #18
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Those who aren't certain why a ban on waka jumping is bad (and anti-democratic) should think not just about the formation of the Green Party but also the Maori Party. Turiana Turia left Labour over differences over the Seabed and Foreshore Bill. Because a waka jumping ban was in place at the time, she had to quit parliament and a by-election was held (at cost to the taxpayer) to vote on her now empty Maori electorate seat. She was voted back in and from this, the Maori Party was born. But consider what would have happened if she hadn't been voted back in. No Maori Party, and a parliament less representative of voters (the point of MMP is to be more representative of voters). No party representing the voice of Maori people (Labour does a shit job of representing Maori).

Turia took the risk of not being returned to Parliament because she believed strongly enough in her position that she left the Labour Party. Not every politician would have the courage of conviction to do such a thing and therefore would not be willing to disagree with their party leaders, lest they lose their job.

Why is this anti-democratic? Because an electorate MP is voted in not just because of the party they belong to, but also because they are representing the community in that electorate. If the party leaders take a position on something that works against that community, then the MP can do little to oppose it. That's bad for that electorate.
I still don't see why someone leaving a party they got voted in on shouldn't have to establish a mandate through a by-election. This seems more democratic.

Also unless it's a conscience vote isn't it the situation already that they can do little to oppose the party line?
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Old 28th July 2018, 07:58     #19
Redneck
 
"Give us the waka jumping bill and we'll give you legal weed."
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Old 28th July 2018, 11:59     #20
Lightspeed
 
More likely the leave for domestic violence bill that just passed.
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Old 29th July 2018, 08:37     #21
fixed_truth
 
Oh shit I find myself agreeing with Mike Hosking

Quote:
A lot of people are upset about this and I’m not 100 per cent sure why.

I understand why in theory but I’m not sure why in reality.
Quote:
His basic argument - and you know what? I agree with it - is if you are elected under the umbrella of this particular organisation. If for whatever reason you cannot cope with that and you no longer want to be part of that organisation, you don’t get then to just sit in Parliament as an independent as you didn’t get elected that way and therefore you should get booted out.
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/m...-jumping-bill/
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:04     #22
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Credit where it’s due: Peters did a good job as PM. I thought he’d be a disaster.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 13:00     #23
The Edge
 
Me too, I was quite surprised but (for the most part) I thought he did okay.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/01...-as-acting-pm/
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Old 3rd August 2018, 15:58     #24
Deadmeat
 
What were people expecting to happen? He got made PM in a parliamentary system, not God Sun Emperor of the Land.
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