Welcome to the Panopticon, we got fun and games

[Pimp-X]

My shares in tin foil are soaring! What a great purchase!

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by adonis

too much of it fits together.

Pimp-X retiring early on the profits from this single statement.

[plaz0r]

So I got around to watching the Snowden bit from the Moment Of Truth(tm) event.

Am I missing something, or did nothing he say actually corroborate the accusation that the GCSB is conducting mass surveillance of New Zealand communications?

When he spoke about how K-Keyscore worked, he said that an NSA analyst would be able to search captured data for contents of emails that individuals have sent, and that they would be able to see the titles of books that people were searching for on Amazon.

To me, that doesn't imply that the data in question was captured within New Zealand -- we already know that the NSA intercepts communications within the US that they think may be to or from non-US citizens. So it's not at all surprising that they would have information about traffic originating in New Zealand and terminating or passing through the United States. It certainly doesn't imply that the GCSB was involved in the collection of the data.

About as close as the discussion came was this two-part question from Glenn Greenwald:

GREENWALD: Just to be very clear about one particular point, can .. can you say definitively based on your first-hand work with X-Keyscore and other mass-surveillance programmes that within the Five Eyes alliance mechanisms there are large amounts of indiscriminate metadata about the communication or other online events of New Zealand citizens, and does the GCSB -- separately as a question -- contribute in any way, analytically or otherwise, to that collection of data?


SNOWDEN: Ah yes, absolutely. There's no question about it. There's not just metadata, although people like to talk about just metadata, and metadata is extraordinarily intrusive. As an analyst I would prefer to be looking at metadata than looking at content because it's quicker and easier and it doesn't lie. If I'm listening to your phone call you can try to talk around things, you can use code words, but if I'm looking at your metadata I know which number called which number. I know which computer talked to which computer. And yeah, that exists comprehensively for all of the Five Eyes allies; for all of their network-enabled sort of partners; for all of their telecommunications providers and things like that that are overseas that have a strong national connection. They create sort of what they call commercial relationships; corporate relationships that allow them to do this.

And specifically yes, the GCSB not only uses X-Keyscore; they have expanded it. The've contributed to its development, ah .. they've proposed algorithms and those sort of fingerprints that are used to track people and targets. Um .. and that's a .. that's a tremendously concerning thing for any public; ah - particularly when these decisions about whether or not intelligence agencies should cross the gap between targeted surveillance based on judicial warrants, based on limited collection that's necessary and proportionate to the threat faced and sort of leaving the intelligence agencies to their own devices and say "hey, if you guys want to watch everybody in the country -- that's fine, just tell us what you want to do and you'll pass the law -- or we'll pass the law for you." And I think that's another key. We talk about this GCH -- GCSB act of sort of August of last year, and we go "if the prime minister is so comfortable revealing this information this week, why didn't this happen last year when it was being debated? Why was it not relevant to the public interest when it was our rights on the line, but suddenly it's critical to get this information out there when it's one man's reputation on the line?" And that's a question that I think needs to be answered.

(I couldn't find an existing transcript so I typed it out myself while listening to it on Youtube; apologies for any transcription errors)

So yes -- the GCSB was involved in the development of X-Keyscore. Given that the GCSB is part of the intelligence network that uses X-Keyscore, is that really all that surprising? It doesn't imply though that the GCSB has been illegally conducting mass surveillance against New Zealand targets.


edit: should note, I haven't watched the whole two hours of the Kim Dot Bombshell event; just the bit where Snowden first came on. I'll check out the rest some time when I'm not at work.

[Lightspeed]

JK vs Greenwald on Campbell Live tonight.

[plaz0r]

[Ab]

I use Gmail and Outlook.com for most emailing. The servers are based in the USA. I assume as a matter of course that my unencrypted emails through US servers are snooped by the NSA. Thus the Five Eyes partners have access to the private communications of a NZ citizen.

[Farmer Joe]

There's a lot of carefully chosen language going on. My guess is that the NSA captures NZ data/metadata and then the GCSB access that data via xkeyscore - conveniently allowing them to deny "mass surveillance".

[plaz0r]

Sure. But that's not a revelation. The gcsb has allegedly been operating that way within Five Eyes and Echelon since the Waihopai spy base was set up in the late 80s.

[chubby]

..and who expects politicians to be honest anyway?


amirite?

[StN]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

This is christian dogma and I don't think it's correct. I prefer an alternative like "treat others as they want to be treated". If you try very hard you can twist the former to mean the latter by abstraction but the two concepts are in reality completely different.

Both are very well meaning ideals.

Well, as far as golden rules go, they are considerably more left leaning than the other one where he who has the gold makes the rules

[pxpx]

Helen Clark denying that GSCB spies on NZers..

rofl.

Nah.. lets just believe Snowden etc because "it all just sounds too convenient"

[chubby]

a journalist.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/17...e-perfect-ppp/

[pxpx]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=11326909

Wonder how the Aussie Feds got the information in order to get the search warrants signed off by the courts.

I reckon they got terrorists to fill out an online survey.

[Spink]

Originally Posted by pxpx

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=11326909

Wonder how the Aussie Feds got the information in order to get the search warrants signed off by the courts.

I reckon they got terrorists to fill out an online survey.

You say that but I literally just filled in an online form for US immigration that said "Do you seek to engage in terrorist activities while in the United States or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities?" [yes] [no]

Lower on the page it said "Have you ever engaged in the recruitment or use of child soldiers?" D: scary stuff.

[Lightspeed]

Do they still ask if you were involved with the Nazis? That's a funny one.

[Pimp-X]

Of course you said yes to both just to see if anyone's checking the data, right?

[Spink]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Do they still ask if you were involved with the Nazis? That's a funny one.

Nope It asked if I'm affiliated with the Communist or other totalitarian party, though. I guess since I vote national I check Yes to that?

[Know me.]

Originally Posted by Farmer Joe

There's a lot of carefully chosen language going on. My guess is that the NSA captures NZ data/metadata and then the GCSB access that data via xkeyscore - conveniently allowing them to deny "mass surveillance".

nail on the head.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Ab

I use Gmail and Outlook.com for most emailing. The servers are based in the USA. I assume as a matter of course that my unencrypted emails through US servers are snooped by the NSA. Thus the Five Eyes partners have access to the private communications of a NZ citizen.

I use the internet. NZ's connection to the world, with the exception of Australia, terminates in a location based in the USA. I assume as a matter of course that my data, unencrypted or otherwise or at least information showing what connections I make, is being snooped on by the NSA. Thus the Five Eyes partners have access to the private communications of a NZ citizen.

[Pimp-X]

You ARE new to this!

[MadMax]

everyone's gotta start somewhere

how does a connection to somewhere not terminate in that somewhere?

[pxpx]

Can someone define Terminate?

[StN]

I post to NZG from within NZ. How does the NSA cable tap sniff that?


PS:

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[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by StN

I post to NZG from within NZ. How does the NSA cable tap sniff that?

That port mirroring stuff MadMax was talking about. Pretty sure NZG was targeted back in the day, but to snap up talent like tmasky.

Seriously though, I don't even trust the communication between by keyboard and PC. I should probably get one of them hats Pimp-X is selling.

[^BITES^]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

That port mirroring stuff MadMax was talking about. Pretty sure NZG was targeted back in the day, but to snap up talent like tmasky.

Seriously though, I don't even trust the communication between by keyboard and PC. I should probably get one of them hats Pimp-X is selling.

"it seems feasible" or "its too much coincidence" sort of shit is why I'm probably going to vote, too many fucking morons believing bullshit and feels like a duty to counter balance derp.