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Old 24th July 2011, 23:45     #761
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyc
Okay, so the Green Party has a candidate standing in Ohariu but isn't CAMPAIGNING for the local MP vote? Give me a break. They might not be outright telling people to vote Labour but the underlying intent is totally obvious.
For sure, not campaigning is indirectly implying that the Greens would like their voters to give Chauvel their electorate vote.

Though this is not their part of a deal negotiated with Labour (if Hughes isn't lying of course).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Well I guess if Gareth Hughes says it, then it must be true! CASE CLOSED!
No not case closed. There's the possibility that Hughes is lying and there is actually a deal but so far I've seen nothing to suggest this apart from Dunne assuming that the Greens not campaigning necessitates a deal with Labour.
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Old 25th July 2011, 00:10     #762
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
No not case closed. There's the possibility that Hughes is lying
But you're happy to accept that he isn't. Yeah, we know.
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Old 25th July 2011, 00:22     #763
fixed_truth
 
o_O

Um . . . yeah. There's no evidence for me to assume he is lying and he doesn't have a history of it so why wouldn't I?
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Old 25th July 2011, 00:52     #764
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I thought so.
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Old 26th July 2011, 17:26     #765
cyc
Objection!
 
One rule for me, another for people that I don't like

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...Carten-company

Matt McCarten, he who operates a company that doesn't pay PAYE. Another useless leftie.
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Old 26th July 2011, 17:33     #766
cEvin
Love In Vein
 
any websites for quick side by side comparison of key policies around yet?

this was decent once upon a time: http://www.policy.net.nz/
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Old 28th July 2011, 17:00     #767
Cyberbob
 
Discuss

http://www.meme-hazard.org/blog/2011...mmp-in-graphs/
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Old 28th July 2011, 18:59     #768
fixed_truth
 
Yep some good evidence why a return to FPP or something similar would be a step backwards.
Quote:
While MMP has its flaws, it’s important to remember that a vote against it should be tempered with a vote for a better system

I would like to see the threshold lowered to 3-4 and have it so that if a party wins an electorate seat it can only bring in extra party members if it has passed the threshold.

I assume that this would stop parties doing the type of deals where one party aims to give away the electorate to another party (as there would only be one seat up for grabs).
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Old 29th July 2011, 16:15     #769
spigalau
 
50 MMP, 60 regular electorate seats

* 2% gets you an MMP seat
* Maori seats folded in to regular seats.

And no, you don't need to have an electorate seat to get a List seat, that's just bat shit inane.
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Last edited by spigalau : 29th July 2011 at 16:16.
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Old 29th July 2011, 17:49     #770
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
I'd like to see politicians be required to demonstrate a minimum level of competency before they can vote in parliament.
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:00     #771
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
How would you determine their competency?
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:15     #772
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Set up a professional body that could administer examinations and set standards for professional behavior.
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:21     #773
Lightspeed
 
How would that professional body be appointed?
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:26     #774
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Who would oversee it? Who would ensure that it could not be stacked by any party? A noble idea, but I don't see it working.
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:33     #775
xor
 
I think MMP is a shitcunt system that allows shitcunts that nobody likes get elected to represent you, the people that didn't vote for them.

Example 1 - Margaret Wilson
Example 2 - Roger FUCKING Douglas
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:37     #776
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Who would oversee it? Who would ensure that it could not be stacked by any party? A noble idea, but I don't see it working.
Most true professions manage to do this perfectly well. Lawyers do a pretty good job for example.
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Old 29th July 2011, 19:14     #777
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Teapot
I'd like to see politicians be required to demonstrate a minimum level of competency before they can vote in parliament.
I don't think that qualifies as "democracy". I'd rather vote on how I want particular issues dealt with, rather than picking some random guy/girl who I've never met to represent me, even though they don't have a clue how I'd like to be represented.

Cut out the psychic representative, and let us vote on /issues/.
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Old 29th July 2011, 19:18     #778
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Teapot
Most true professions manage to do this perfectly well.
Oh yeah, like the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand. Not at all a bunch of self-serving twats. I don't see how you idea could fail!
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Old 29th July 2011, 19:37     #779
doppelgänger of someone
 
Wait, Roger FUCKING Douglas? That cunt told me he isn't gay.
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Old 29th July 2011, 20:08     #780
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doppelgänger of someone
Wait, Roger FUCKING Douglas? That cunt told me he isn't gay.
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Old 29th July 2011, 21:48     #781
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Oh yeah, like the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand.
I did restrict myself to real professionals. I just can't bring myself to put real estate agents in that category. If they cleaned up their act in terms of ability to regulate themselves then perhaps I'd view them more favorably.

Case in point I've had two tell me significant bare faced lies during my current search for a new home. One was trying to pass what was very obviously plastic laminate flooring off as wood laminate, and the other was trying to convince me that monolithically clad buildings from the early 1990s are not prone to leaking.
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Old 31st July 2011, 15:55     #782
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spigalau
50 MMP, 60 regular electorate seats

* 2% gets you an MMP seat
* Maori seats folded in to regular seats.

And no, you don't need to have an electorate seat to get a List seat, that's just bat shit inane.
I like the simplicity of this. Though I don't agree with getting rid of the Maori seats as it will likely result in poor representation for Maori in parliament.
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:03     #783
A Corpse
talkative lurker
 
Under FPP no doubt. With MMP and the existance of two Maori parties now it shouldn't be as big a problem.
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Old 31st July 2011, 16:15     #784
fixed_truth
 
The Maori Party poll 2 -3% and Mana Party 0.6%. So Maori Party would get 1 seat and Mana none.
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Old 31st July 2011, 18:56     #785
A Corpse
talkative lurker
 
Sounds to me like people voting on the Maori roll don't believe that those parties adequately represent their interests. Quick, force more of them into parliament despite the fact that they are not wanted there.
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Old 31st July 2011, 19:14     #786
Lightspeed
 
Sheeeeit.
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Old 31st July 2011, 19:36     #787
fixed_truth
 
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Old 1st August 2011, 16:53     #788
ZoSo
 
lol @ the red balloons comment Ab. Totally lost in-between all the whining twats though.
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Old 16th August 2011, 18:10     #789
crocos
 
STOP CODDLING THE SUPER-RICH.
By general all-round super-rich guy Warren E. Buffett.

Not quite the same scale here, but the principals carry through - kill or reduce GST and similar table-taxes, increase taxation at the top end.
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Last edited by crocos : 16th August 2011 at 18:11.
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Old 16th August 2011, 18:22     #790
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Has Labour given up? Seriously. It's like, three months to the election and Labour's invisible. We've had 4 straight days devoted to the National conference and the food-stamps idea and not a peep out of Labour. No protests outside the conference, no carefully-scripted reply shooting the food-stamps idea down, nothing. National is out on the court shooting baskets all by itself.
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Old 16th August 2011, 18:23     #791
ZoSo
 
Labour & the Electoral Act, good mates.
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Old 16th August 2011, 18:24     #792
ZoSo
 
Ab: They'll fire up their union lackeys & rent-a-crowd, closer to the RWC no doubt.
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Old 16th August 2011, 19:26     #793
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
But the food stamps are a good idea. Even labour will see this and not want to look even more stupid by suggesting otherwise.
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Old 16th August 2011, 19:46     #794
A Corpse
talkative lurker
 
They're still chewing on the several dozen feet they already have in their mouths, and can't yet accomodate any more.
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Old 16th August 2011, 20:28     #795
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Teapot
But the food stamps are a good idea. Even labour will see this and not want to look even more stupid by suggesting otherwise.
Interesting article by Hickey about the consistency of extending spending restrictions to all beneficiaries.
http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/54...ch-he-wants-it
Quote:
John Armstrong writes this morning at the NZ Herald how the announcement of this policy was the one thing that got the National Party conference excited.
It was greeted with "loud cheers, piercing whistles, stamping feet and wild applause."
Would they have been so keen if Key had announced they wouldn't be allowed to spend their pensions at the local pokies or on their favourite dram of whiskey or on a holiday to see the grandkids in Australia?
That is the irony here. Key was preaching to an audience of beneficiaries. Mostly quite rich beneficiaries. They certainly outnumbered the out of work teenagers in the audience.
Pensioners are New Zealand's biggest beneficiaries. There are over 580,000 people aged over 65 who received over NZ$8.8 billion worth benefits in the financial year just completed.
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Old 17th August 2011, 09:37     #796
StN
I have detailed files
 
Hasn't Key been quite vocal in stating that the pension isn't a benefit, it's an entitlement, as it is paid to all people over 65?

My one concern is that if they say it's going to be easy to restrict the payments from the youth card, what is to say it isn't as simple to exclude GST from fresh food? Apart from only certain vendors accepting the card - how would that work for rural recipients? They can only spend there dole card when they visit a big smoke?

Last edited by StN : 17th August 2011 at 09:39.
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Old 17th August 2011, 10:26     #797
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
Hasn't Key been quite vocal in stating that the pension isn't a benefit, it's an entitlement, as it is paid to all people over 65?
He probably has been, pensioners vote But seriously to get an Independent Youth Benefit you pretty much have to come from a family (& wider family) that's not fit to look after you. Arguably support here is an entitlement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN
My one concern is that if they say it's going to be easy to restrict the payments from the youth card, what is to say it isn't as simple to exclude GST from fresh food? Apart from only certain vendors accepting the card - how would that work for rural recipients? They can only spend there dole card when they visit a big smoke?
Still waiting for details of what shops and what they can and can't buy. I'm not convinced that the card will work as intended, nor the truth in the assumption that all these kids are wasting whatever they have left from $170 pw minus living expenses on booze and ciggies.
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Old 17th August 2011, 10:49     #798
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Has Labour given up? Seriously. It's like, three months to the election and Labour's invisible. We've had 4 straight days devoted to the National conference and the food-stamps idea and not a peep out of Labour. No protests outside the conference, no carefully-scripted reply shooting the food-stamps idea down, nothing. National is out on the court shooting baskets all by itself.
Yeah I haven't seen a lot of response. But from what I have seen (re the welfare of youth) National are just dribbling.

Training solution to youth unemployment - Goff - video article
Quote:
Mr Goff says the payment card scheme, which would limit the items young beneficiaries could spend their benefit on, is a “red herring” and takes the focus away from the issue of training programmes.
“The Government’s talking big but at the same time it’s cutting $145 million out of training this year,” he says.
“[Government] shouldn’t be cutting the funding into skills training, that’s critical – we’ve got a shortage of skills and a whole lot of young people out of work, it needs to bring the two together.”
John Key hasn’t ruled out a return to youth wage, something Mr Goff says “might see a transfer of unemployment from young to older people” but isn’t fair.
Bennett flustered by unemployment figures - video article

Parliament lolz
Quote:
Labour leader Phil Goff asked if John Key accepted “that his unemployment policies for young people have failed”, but Mr Key transferred the question to Ms Bennett.

Labour MP Trevor Mallard called the Prime Minister a chicken and was kicked out.
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Old 17th August 2011, 11:36     #799
ZoSo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Parliament lolz
Longer version reads better.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-cat-and-mouse
Trumped again.
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Old 17th August 2011, 12:11     #800
fixed_truth
 
You think that Key purposely avoiding answering questions about his own comments is a good thing?
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