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Old 14th December 2010, 09:56     #1
fixed_truth
 
Random Politics

"Perhaps for things that arent quite worthy of their own thread, but are perhaps still worthy discussion, or ..... WHATEVER."


WikiLeaks: US preferred National
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=10693932

In other news, sheep like grass!
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Old 14th December 2010, 22:43     #2
chubby
 
lets not forget two other gems from today-
'aucklanders hate traffic' and 'users of twitter are narcissists'
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Old 15th December 2010, 12:03     #3
leadinjector
 
never understood twitter because of that eh. its like those "what are you reading/listening to" threads, everyone just wants other people to know what they are thinking, but nobody actually reads what anyone else writes. fucking stupid.
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Old 15th December 2010, 21:39     #4
fixed_truth
 
Pansy to keep travel perks

Quote:
If you thought Pansy Wong's departure from Parliament in disgrace over travel perks meant the end of her travelling at taxpayers' expense…you would be wrong.

In fact, the public will be subsidising her flights for the rest of her life.
That is fucked up.
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Old 16th December 2010, 18:19     #5
ZoSo
 
Goffle
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Old 16th December 2010, 20:50     #6
fixed_truth
 
^^you expect him to sell a house in this market
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Old 18th December 2010, 10:37     #7
Lightspeed
 
Four and a half hours of televised Q&A with Putin.

Politics is a whole nother thing in Russia.

Related:
Putin reassures Russian whistleblower doctor by telephone.
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Old 20th December 2010, 10:32     #8
fixed_truth
 
^^That Putin guy doesn't seem so bad. Hardly the "Alpha Dog" of World Politics :P

Him singing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULqKRYBzbMo
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Old 31st January 2011, 14:09     #9
fixed_truth
 
Bradford confirms Leftist party talk

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ist-party-talk

Surely this would only shift votes from the Green & Maori parties? I can't see this really affecting National.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 22:20     #10
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
It's great for National.

Option 1: John Key as PM.

Option 2: A quadrumvirate of Phil Goff, Winston Peters, Sue Bradford, and the Harawira whanau running the country.


Roll on election day.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 22:34     #11
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
quadrumvirate
Did you have to look that up?
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Old 2nd February 2011, 23:34     #12
chiQ
Frag-muff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Did you have to look that up?
That's how he talks. His vocabulary is what he uses to compensate for his inadequacies.
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Old 2nd February 2011, 23:41     #13
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
He talks like that in real life too? Do people ever get bored of him part way through a 5 syllable word and just stop listening?
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Old 3rd February 2011, 11:04     #14
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Option 1: John Key as PM.
I guess John's hoping that he doesn't need a coalition partner. What's Act got to offer 2-3 seats?, and I'm not sure he could count on the Maori Party.
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Old 3rd February 2011, 11:47     #15
Yoda
 
I'd say Key is avoiding even mentioning ACT. I'd say there's a fair few people who regret voting ACT last election...
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Old 6th February 2011, 19:29     #16
fixed_truth
 
British PM: Multiculturalism has failed
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41444364...d_news-europe/
Quote:
Prime Minister David Cameron, in a speech attended by world leaders, on Saturday criticized his country’s longstanding policy of multiculturalism, saying it was an outright failure and partly to blame for fostering Islamist extremism.
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Old 6th February 2011, 21:02     #17
StN
I have detailed files
 
^^ My first thought was "I wonder what Pat Condell has to say about this..."
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:31     #18
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
PM defends aid for 'underclass' in face of attack
Quote:
John Key says the Government has done as much as possible for the poor after the mother of a family he championed said he was a political "arsehole".

In Opposition in 2007, the Prime Minister singled out McGehan Close, Mt Albert, as typical of the "growing underclass" that would be a priority for National.

He visited the Nathan family and invited Joan Nathan's 12-year-old daughter, Aroha, to Waitangi.

But now Mrs Nathan says although she still likes Mr Key personally, as a politician he is an "arsehole" and has done little to help the poor.

"He's just making everything better for high earners and not the low-income ones," she told Campbell Live.

Mrs Nathan, who recently had her sixth child, said her life was no better under Mr Key's Government.

"Bread, milk, everything that we need that is a basic necessity for us is going to be more expensive. It's going to be harder for us to feed our kids."
Something ain't quite right here...

How's this: government provides aid for low income families through benefits like DPB but only up to 3 children. After the 3rd child, the govt will pay for you to have your tubes tied. Good idea, no?
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:38     #19
A Corpse
talkative lurker
 
Why these people on the bottom rung ever thought National was actually going to help them is beyond me...
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:55     #20
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
There is only so much that any government can do for people like this. Six kids is a lot to look after, even if some of them are in CYF care. These people create their own problems and they need to help themselves by not constantly shitting out child after child to be born into poverty. We cannot just throw money at them and think that will solve the problem when those six children will only grow up to have another six children of their own, again born into poverty and wondering why the government doesn't just fix anything for them.

The only thing that families with many children contributes positively to is population growth, which we like to keep in positive figures. But contributing to the problem of poverty by increasing the poverty stricken population is only going backwards. Create more jobs? Whoop-de-shit. More people scraping by on minimum wage and still living beyond their means. Hand out a bit of cash? Great shit, that will fix things!

/rant over... for the moment.
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Old 8th February 2011, 13:57     #21
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Further down that article:

Quote:
Aroha, now 16, had got caught up in the wrong crowd and was expelled from Mt Albert Grammar School last year. She was now in Child, Youth and Family care, which Mrs Nathan said was better because "it's a life I can't give her".
1. Go on DPB.
2. Have more babies.
...
4. PROFIT!!!


FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:01     #22
Lightspeed
 
Less resources == more babies.

Seems crazy, but that's how humans are the world over.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:03     #23
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
But there AREN'T fewer resources for this woman, that's the problem. She doesn't have a resource scarcity, because she's on the DPB. More money just "magically appears". And the more children she has, the more money appears.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:10     #24
Lightspeed
 
I think that's the issue. Our society values money, arguably above everything else. If someone has money, they're considered resourced.

But a woman who does not think she can offer her daughter a life, clearly is not resourced.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:10     #25
Saladin
Nothing to See Here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
After the 3rd child, the govt will pay for you to have your tubes tied. Good idea, no?
People (including current ministers) bleat and bleat about nanny state when the government has the audacity to suggest "social engineering" policies like minimum energy efficiency requirements for new homes. Can't imagine how policy like this might go down :P
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:11     #26
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I wonder what she expects a government lead by any party to do for her. Let's take money out of the equation...
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:17     #27
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin
People (including current ministers) bleat and bleat about nanny state when the government has the audacity to suggest "social engineering" policies like minimum energy efficiency requirements for new homes. Can't imagine how policy like this might go down :P
My suggestion is that it would not be a compulsory tube tying, but voluntary. No more financial aid after 3 children would provide incentive to get the tubes tied. Don't want to accidentally trip and fall on some dick and get pregnant again and have another fucking baby but not get extra money for it? The government can help you make sure that never happens, at no cost to you!

The financial cost to the taxpayer of funding these ops would be more than made up for by the benefit to society the op would bring.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:22     #28
Saladin
Nothing to See Here!
 
To be successful though it'd need the primary driver behind having more children to be" getting more financial assistance". Do poor families where there isn't a DPB, like back in the islands (omg racist!) still have more kids?
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:30     #29
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
My suggestion is that it would not be a compulsory tube tying, but voluntary. No more financial aid after 3 children would provide incentive to get the tubes tied.

The financial cost to the taxpayer of funding these ops would be more than made up for by the benefit to society the op would bring.
Hell, you could pay people to get the snip and it would still be a financial win.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:52     #30
GM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin
To be successful though it'd need the primary driver behind having more children to be" getting more financial assistance". Do poor families where there isn't a DPB, like back in the islands (omg racist!) still have more kids?
Samoa birth rate: 22.92 births/1,000 population (2010 est.)

New Zealand birth rate: 13.81 births/1,000 population (2010 est.)

Cambodia: 25.58 births/1,000 population (2010 est.)

Norway: 10.9 births/1,000 population (2010 est.)

Ranked in order:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...=au&rank=75#ws

Last edited by GM : 8th February 2011 at 14:54.
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Old 8th February 2011, 14:58     #31
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Hell, you could pay people to get the snip and it would still be a financial win.
Maaaaybe... but there's demand in NZ for low wage earners that is currently being met by immigration. Perhaps by reducing the number of children raised by those on the DPB, we'll actually lose a valuable labour pool.
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Old 8th February 2011, 15:17     #32
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladin
To be successful though it'd need the primary driver behind having more children to be" getting more financial assistance". Do poor families where there isn't a DPB, like back in the islands (omg racist!) still have more kids?
No, not at all. If people in poverty keep having more children - regardless of the reasons why they have more children - then all they are doing is perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Another mouth to feed, more financial strain on the family, another kid likely to go wayward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Hell, you could pay people to get the snip and it would still be a financial win.
I'd considered that, but then I realised that eventually some idiot would have a wah-wah in the news about how they didn't really want to have their tubes tied but they needed the money and now they regret it and want to have more kids and isn't the government mean and wah wah wah.
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Old 8th February 2011, 15:19     #33
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Maaaaybe... but there's demand in NZ for low wage earners that is currently being met by immigration. Perhaps by reducing the number of children raised by those on the DPB, we'll actually lose a valuable labour pool.
If that labour need is being met by immigration, then how are we losing a valuable labour pool if locals being raised on the DPB have fewer children?
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Old 8th February 2011, 15:38     #34
Lightspeed
 
It's a good point, although workforce is more than just bodies to do the job. Certainly a largely immigrant work force would not come without complications.

My point was to highlight that discouraging those dependent on government benefits from having children isn't an automatic economic win.
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Old 8th February 2011, 15:52     #35
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Of course it isn't. Why would yhou think that it is?
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Old 8th February 2011, 15:54     #36
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Hell, you could pay people to get the snip and it would still be a financial win.
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Old 8th February 2011, 15:58     #37
CCS
Stunt Pants
 


You're getting confused between an across-the-board outright economic win and an economic win related specifically to the issue of how the burden on society of poverty stricken families having too many children could be eased. Please try to keep it in context. I know your mind in prone to wandering into irrelavent territory, but do try to make an effort not to.
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Old 8th February 2011, 16:05     #38
Lightspeed
 
Focusing on "the burden on society of poverty stricken families having too many children" seems overly moralistic to me. Particularly if you're only willing to consider how such families drain society and not how they add to society.
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Old 8th February 2011, 16:19     #39
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Hell, you could pay people to get the snip and it would still be a financial win.
A more applicable option might be a 'contraceptive tax credit' paid to women who choose to use longer term contrecaptive.

I think that setting a max DBP amount for say three children would just mean you've got kids growing up in an even more impoverished environment.
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Old 8th February 2011, 17:39     #40
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Focusing on "the burden on society of poverty stricken families having too many children" seems overly moralistic to me. Particularly if you're only willing to consider how such families drain society and not how they add to society.
Context, broski, context.
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