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Old 7th December 2022, 10:30     #1961
xor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
There's no entitlement or right to only compete amongst a certain set of people.
lol, what a sack of shit. Drink
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Old 7th December 2022, 17:58     #1962
_Incubus_
 
Very angry

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/...starting-2024/

Wow, local council lockdown of movements controlled by a permit system to save the planet.
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Old 7th December 2022, 18:07     #1963
_indigo1
 
Someone ate the onion. . .
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Old 14th December 2022, 10:24     #1964
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
White man who murdered an interracial lesbian couple and their adopted child to be housed in a women’s prison

https://mandystadtmiller.substack.co...s-is-the?sd=pf
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Old 14th December 2022, 12:08     #1965
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Laugh

Quote:
The Greatest Trick the Pornsick Man Ever Played Was Demanding That His Public Acting Out of Sexual Kinks Was Actually a “Civil Rights” Issue
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Old 14th December 2022, 16:33     #1966
Caesar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
White man who murdered an interracial lesbian couple and their adopted child to be housed in a women’s prison

https://mandystadtmiller.substack.co...s-is-the?sd=pf
I wonder what the cutoff point is when a man has been accused of a crime and most likely will go to Prison, that they can change gender and then end up going to a woman's prison. (not saying this happened here, just a general thought).
E.G: Man commits crime, decides they are really a woman and wants to change gender a few months before sentencing. Does that qualify for he to then be a she and go to a woman's prison?
Or what if they start transitioning to a woman and then commit a crime? Do they go to a male or female prison?
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Old 14th December 2022, 17:52     #1967
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
The principle of "Self-ID" means no transitioning is necessary. All that is required is for one to announce that one identifies as something, and one is that thing. Instantly. It's retroactive too - it means that one was always that thing, even if one did not know it at the time.
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Old 17th December 2022, 00:44     #1968
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Norwegian actress Tonje Gjevjon faces up to 3 years in prison for saying men cannot be lesbians
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Old 17th December 2022, 07:00     #1969
fixed_truth
 
Oh no! Here come the consequences to my actions
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Old 17th December 2022, 12:00     #1970
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Even when the action is stating a fact.
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Old 17th December 2022, 12:12     #1971
Lightspeed
 
Given our history of using "facts" to oppress people, I don't find anything compelling about that statement.
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Old 17th December 2022, 12:16     #1972
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
All lesbians are women.
No men are women.
therefore
No men are lesbians.

It's the simplest statement in all of logic.
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Old 17th December 2022, 12:20     #1973
Lightspeed
 
Oh, I guess oppression is fine when it's logical. 🤷
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Old 17th December 2022, 12:38     #1974
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
And as we all know, men sure have been oppressed.
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Old 17th December 2022, 13:00     #1975
Lightspeed
 
Indeed, there are no shortage of circumstances where men are included amongst those being oppressed.

With strict definitions and application of logic used to separate people by their vulnerabilities, and the needs of their oppressors.
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Old 17th December 2022, 14:01     #1976
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
All lesbians are women.
No men are women.
therefore
No men are lesbians.

It's the simplest statement in all of logic.
Norwegian law affirms Christine Jentoft as a woman.
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Old 17th December 2022, 14:21     #1977
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
And yet he’s not.
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Old 17th December 2022, 15:14     #1978
fixed_truth
 
You're wrongly conflating sex & gender, again.

In Norway (like a growing number of progressive countries) the collaborative consensus has determined that the social construct 'women' can include transgender people.

You can declare whatever you like (sometimes with consequences) but that doesn't make it true.
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Old 17th December 2022, 15:31     #1979
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
“Woman” is a category that does not include males.
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Old 17th December 2022, 16:17     #1980
fixed_truth
 
Many countries including New Zealand, Australia & the UK have some kind of gender recognition act where males can be included in the category woman.
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Old 17th December 2022, 16:50     #1981
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Norwegian law affirms Christine Jentoft as a woman.
Law gives companies and corporations the status of a legal person, even though clearly companies and corporations are not actually people. That the law allows a male to change his legal documentation to state "woman" instead of "man", doesn't mean he is actually a woman, any more than a company is an actual person because it has legal personhood.
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Old 17th December 2022, 18:33     #1982
fixed_truth
 
There is a clear distinction in law between non-humans with legal personality (juridical persons) and humans (natural persons). So both entities aren’t under the category human.

Gender recognition acts don’t say transwomen are non-woman with woman rights, rather they include them in the category of women.

What makes someone a woman is how they self-identify but having this legitimized through law is important.
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Old 17th December 2022, 21:36     #1983
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Nah dude pretty sure it’s having a body designed to produce eggs
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Old 17th December 2022, 22:45     #1984
fixed_truth
 
That would be a female.
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Old 18th December 2022, 00:45     #1985
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
So close

And the word for sexually mature human females is
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Old 18th December 2022, 01:20     #1986
Lightspeed
 
o_O

... loaded?
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Old 18th December 2022, 06:53     #1987
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
And the word for sexually mature human females is
If a sexually mature human female identifies as a woman then they are a woman. If they don't then they're not.
Conversely if a sexually mature human male identifies as a woman then they are a woman.

Biological sex doesn't determine these categories because we're talking about gender. It's in our heads not biology.
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Old 18th December 2022, 12:09     #1988
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Then what you’re describing is a religious belief.
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Old 18th December 2022, 12:20     #1989
DrTiTus
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
 
When you say "gender" you are probably referring to what I would call "clothing" - or the most common expression of gender. The same way birds may have different coloured feathers to signify their "biological purpose". If a man wears clothing that was intended to be worn by someone whose sex is female, then he is pretending to be ("identifying as") a woman. This part is not lost on me. I realize he is expressing his /desire to act as/ a woman.

His gender /expression/ is that OF a woman. He is identifying AS - but IS not - a woman. He may find that being in character AS a woman is fun, or perhaps a relief for his mental issues, and he may choose to live his life in character. But if he sees a stereotypical woman stuck on the side of the road with a flat tyre, he will still be able to stop, hitch up his dress, and change her car tyre to get her moving again. He has not lost his utility, despite his clothing. Nor has he gained any utility by wearing a dress. It's just clothing.

When Lou Ferrigno puts in coloured contacts and paints himself green, going into character, he is pretending to be - identifying as - the Incredible Hulk. But he is not actually a superhero. He just goes to the effort to look like one and while children with cancer that he hypothetically visits may be convinced he's actually "the Incredible Hulk", and he could change his name by law to be Bruce Banner, people with a bit more experience in the world know he's just pretending. A state manufactured ID card saying "Bruce Banner" while he's painted green does not make him an actual superhero.

If someone else also wears coloured contacts and paints themselves green, and expresses himself as "the Hulk", people will also realize who they are pretending to be. They may refer to them as "the Hulk" for the evening and buy them drinks and have a good time, and maybe go home and smear the sheets green if that's their thing, but they will know it's not the REAL Hulk. Simply wearing a costume does not make one genuine. The Hulk imposter may argue that there is no difference, change THEIR name to Bruce Banner, and that the Hulk is just a social construct, but the wise will not be fooled. The REAL Hulk is Lou Ferrigno. Despite the Hulk being a social construct - something that is not real and merely invented by society - it's a highly valued title which we will not happily bestow upon any cheap imposter. You can if you wish, but there is no reason that others have to follow your lead.
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Old 18th December 2022, 13:14     #1990
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Then what you’re describing is a religious belief.
You're almost there.

Like being religious, or a sports fan, or conservative; gender is also a socially constructed form of identity. It's an internal perception not dependent on anything to do with your physical body.

It's kinda weird that you feel like you need to step in to stop people from being who they want to be.
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Old 18th December 2022, 13:28     #1991
fixed_truth
 
@DrTiTus I have to admit that's some top tier shitposting, I enjoyed reading that
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Old 18th December 2022, 14:02     #1992
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
It's an internal perception not dependent on anything to do with your physical body.
Thus for the perception, and the identity, to exist, it has to be subjectively experienced. So a transgender male who identifies as a woman reverts to being a man upon death. In fact, reverts to being a man whenever the consciousness that creates the alternate, subjective, reality is not present. The transgender male who identifies as a woman while awake is a man while asleep - because there's no consciousness there to actively participate in the alternate self-constructed reality.

This inevitably becomes a dualist discussion of a self that exists independent of the corporeal body. That is to say, a soul. Which just reinforces the obviousness of the fact that we are talking about religious belief.
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Old 18th December 2022, 14:13     #1993
Lightspeed
 
The state of such a person can only be known if observed and any such observation is going to result in a change to that person's state. So any state we might claim about a person tells us about the system making that claim.

There is no absolute, objective state any such person exists in.
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Old 18th December 2022, 14:14     #1994
_indigo1
 
Ideologically decoupling behaviour, identity from sex ✔
Repurposing words and retroactively changing their meaning to support ideology, no matter how moral or altruistic, and forcing that change on others as "fact" ❌
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Old 18th December 2022, 14:35     #1995
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _indigo1
Ideologically decoupling behaviour, identity from sex ✔
Repurposing words and retroactively changing their meaning to support ideology, no matter how moral or altruistic, and forcing that change on others as "fact" ❌
https://twitter.com/DalgetySusan/sta...99110810128384

Watch this man, protesting the screening of a women's rights film, claim to be "an adult human female" at 0:11.
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Old 18th December 2022, 14:45     #1996
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Thus for the perception, and the identity, to exist, it has to be subjectively experienced.
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
So a transgender male who identifies as a woman reverts to being a man upon death.
If a male identifying as a woman dies then yes there is no way to confirm their gender but there's no default gender based on biology. Like if someone gay dies they don't become straight.
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Old 18th December 2022, 15:18     #1997
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _indigo1
Ideologically decoupling behaviour, identity from sex ✔
Repurposing words and retroactively changing their meaning to support ideology, no matter how moral or altruistic, and forcing that change on others as "fact" ❌
This is a bit of an eurocentric distortion as over the course of much of human history different societies have lived with fluid notions of masculinity and femininity.
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Old 18th December 2022, 17:28     #1998
_indigo1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
This is a bit of an eurocentric distortion as over the course of much of human history different societies have lived with fluid notions of masculinity and femininity.
The sky is blue
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Old 18th December 2022, 18:12     #1999
Lightspeed
 
It wasn't too clear what point was trying to be made there.

Especially given there those who treat language as sacrosanct, definitions being the final word. To stray from definition is to stray from reason, from credibility, from truth.
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Old 19th December 2022, 02:29     #2000
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
A woman who sent sick messages to someone she assumed was an underage girl but who was actually an undercover police officer has been jailed for more than five years.

Tiane Miller, 49, was arrested after sending a series of explicit messages to child exploitation unit detectives in 2020 and 2021, who were posing as the girl using an online identity known internally to police as '41'.

Her house was raided and digital devices seized on August 14, 2021 and but she was released on bail.

Sydney's Downing Centre District Court heard on Thursday Miller told the first underage girl she had 'boobs and a c**k' and sent a picture of her chest and penis.
I’m just so relieved that this literally could never happen
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