Random Politics - Page 13

adonis · 9th May 2011, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

Take for example the recent re-balancing of the tax collection from all but the poor. The left still complain about this every breathing moment.

Neither 'the poor' nor 'the rich' are collectives. Clamping down on high income earners dodging the tax bat doesn't justify giving others a cut while essential services like counseling for rape victims and womans refuge's are being cut from the budget.

crocos · 10th May 2011, 11:18

Photoshop some images and look at what happens.

Lightspeed · 10th May 2011, 19:40

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...million-a-week

Are we seriously borrowing ~$100 per person, per week in NZ?

fixed_truth · 10th May 2011, 22:38

Those tax cuts not such a great idea now huh Bill?

Ab · 10th May 2011, 22:51

Labour's plan:

1. Complain about the DPS
2. ...
3. Balanced budget!

cyc · 10th May 2011, 22:54

Don't forget: standing against Hawariwa in a pointless by-election!

fixed_truth · 10th May 2011, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Labour's plan:

1. Complain about the DPS
2. ...
3. Balanced budget!

The standard diversion tactic when confronted with Nationals debt creation is getting a bit old.

Labour has already said that their spending will be funded by progressive taxation and closing loopholes rather than borrowing. Like National last election they haven't released their economic policy yet and probably will wait to after the budget is released as this will likely affect the available revenue and expenditure.

Ab · 11th May 2011, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Labour has already said that their spending will be funded by progressive taxation.

Disclaimer: Tax may not be axed

fixed_truth · 11th May 2011, 10:57

I'm not sure that it's helpful to the National vote in highlighting that National yet again acted against something they campaigned on.

National's economic mismanagement has failed New Zealand and the longer these guys are around the more the 'oh well they both suck, vote National' line wears thin.

Cutting public services while maintaining top tier tax cuts is essentially a redistribution of funds from the bottom to the top. And you're (ie National supporters) are approving this.

Ironically(?), National's term has shown the truth in Cullens 'pay off debt during an expansion so you can borrow to get out of recession'.

cyc · 12th May 2011, 10:03

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10725042

FFS, you idiots: everyone knows that deals for fleet purchases of cars are done with the car manufacturer itself or at least their distributors in NZ and not local dealerships. If you want to shit stir, at least try harder.

fixed_truth · 12th May 2011, 11:34

Yep Labour need to be pretty sure about these types of claims as if it turns out to be baseless they come across as desperate. Besides, it's not as if they have to try hard to find examples of Nationals dishonesty and incompetence.

Key spouts his usual BS hoping that the general public will be fooled. Cunliffe responds by laying the smack down.

http://www.benforshore.co.nz/tag/dodgy-statistics/

JP · 12th May 2011, 15:35

I don't know why Labour don't just non stop talk about Asset Sales and shit like that. Don't talk about anything else, ignore everything else. Just hammer

ASSET SALES ASSET SALES YOUR FUTURE THEYRE FUCKING WITH KIWISAVER YOUR FUTUREEEEEE!

You just need to get a narrative going, might not be able to since the media seem to like National a lot for the most part, but narrative is all powerful for the uninformed voter, which is most of them. I mean 'Auntie Helen', was borderline American retarded, of course it took 3 terms to get to that point. But this National govt could easily be in that long, it seems entirely possible they could have pushed a lot of retarded narrative on him by that stage. It doesn't even have to make sense, you only need like less than a 5% push with how close elections are.

cyc · 12th May 2011, 16:09

Yawn. Of course National isn't doing great. But I am tired of Labour and Labour supporters telling the world how badly National is doing. People in government during shitty economic times almost always resort to BS. But as a party in opposition that's being fucking hammered in the polls, you've gotta do far more than saying "National sucks!" to get most people's votes.

What are Labour's ideas on how to grow this country? TAX FREE ON FIRST $5000 and GST-FREE VEGES ain't it!

xor · 12th May 2011, 16:33

Well Kiwisaver was one...

^BITES^ · 12th May 2011, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

Well Kiwisaver was one...

Grow?

Thought that was a back stop like "you should have saved dumb ass"

aR Que · 12th May 2011, 16:54

Unless you want taxes to increase, something has to be cut.

xor · 12th May 2011, 16:56

NZ doesn't have a flash record for saving for a retirement and with the govt not giving any incentive people simply won't save. It just becomes like any other super scheme.

Saladin · 12th May 2011, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by aR Que

Unless you want taxes to increase, something has to be cut.

Removing a tax credit is no different from a tax increase to the punter though.

plaz0r · 12th May 2011, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

NZ doesn't have a flash record for saving for a retirement and with the govt not giving any incentive people simply won't save. It just becomes like any other super scheme.

Well it's not like the 1.7 million people who are enrolled now can leave - they're stuck in it.

And chances are the people who aren't already signed up weren't going to anyway.

cyc · 12th May 2011, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^BITES^

Grow?

Thought that was a back stop like "you should have saved dumb ass"

Well, not quite. KS was clearly part of a coherent plan to address our anemic capital markets and lack of business capital. In that respect, Labour did a good job on KS. But my question was more along the lines of "What plan does Labour have NOW to grow NZ?".

xor · 12th May 2011, 19:03

Has labour even released their economic policy?

fixed_truth · 12th May 2011, 19:18

Nothing comprehensive as yet I don't think. After the budget or even closer to the election they'll have a better idea of how much further down English is gonna take us.

cyc · 12th May 2011, 19:42

Oh I forgot: Phil Goff promised to play around with the Reserve Bank Act.

GO LABOUR!

fixed_truth · 12th May 2011, 19:52

Harawira lecture axed because of 'redneck racism'
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...redneck-racism

Quote:

Asked why this was an example of racism, Harawira said there were only Pakeha involved in the protest planned at Auckland University.

Did Harawira take DNA samples from all the protestors?

C'mon Hone, I thought you of all people could handle a protest.

Ab · 12th May 2011, 20:14

Maybe Hone's feeling a little bit fragile. If he needs counselling he should give his mother a call. She's good at that shit.

CCS · 12th May 2011, 20:19

Maybe bashing some engineering students with a length of hose would make him feel better.

adonis · 12th May 2011, 21:39

I'd like to know why it was canceled.

BadNova · 12th May 2011, 23:18

Mana may miss by-election

lol

Golden Teapot · 13th May 2011, 09:16

So it seems that those in Kiwi Saver might actually need to do some saving? It's tough to find anything wrong with this idea. It is however abhorrent that for some people it's effectively tax-payers who are providing half of a person's "savings"; should this end? You bet.

crocos · 13th May 2011, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNova

Mana may miss by-election

lol

That is rofl-inducing

plaz0r · 13th May 2011, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

It is however abhorrent that for some people it's effectively tax-payers who are providing half of a person's "savings"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...nore-MPs-super

Quote:

Since 1992, MPs have been entitled to a subsidy of up to 20 per cent of their salary, receiving $2.50 for every dollar they put in. Those elected before 1992 receive a subsidy equal to 23 per cent of their gross salary.

aR Que · 13th May 2011, 10:53

Shock! Politicians have a sweeter deal than the rest of us.

xor · 13th May 2011, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

So it seems that those in Kiwi Saver might actually need to do some saving? It's tough to find anything wrong with this idea. It is however abhorrent that for some people it's effectively tax-payers who are providing half of a person's "savings"; should this end? You bet.

Why shouldn't the government give an extra incentive to help us save? Surely it helps the government in the long run

cyc · 13th May 2011, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

Why shouldn't the government give an extra incentive to help us save? Surely it helps the government in the long run

Well, that's a bit simplistic, especially when the interest incurred from needing to borrow to fund the subsidies will likely exceed the returns obtained. And incentives can be other than top-ups.

Golden Teapot · 13th May 2011, 20:41

It was the final Lange government that made the traditional incentives used for superannuation scheme impossible in the NZ context. There's no viable way of fixing that particularly almighty stuff up. And I've had Cullen speak into my own ear that labour know that this was a stupendous cock up on their part.

Golden Teapot · 13th May 2011, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by plaz0r

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...nore-MPs-super

It's part of their remuneration package - they don't have a choice of cashing up the benefit. Private sector workers 20 years ago often had no choice too but they moaned and moaned at their employers (well, mostly their unions moaned) until their employers relented and let them take the benefit as cash.

fixed_truth · 13th May 2011, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

Why shouldn't the government give an extra incentive to help us save? Surely it helps the government in the long run

Bernard Hickey does an excellent job of explaining why this is true.

http://www.interest.co.nz/kiwisaver/...et-cut-key-sho

Quote:

Changing the rules every time the government wants to reduce the budget deficit simply erodes trust, which is the most ephemeral thing.
It encourages people to disbelieve public institutions such as New Zealand's capital markets and encourages them to instead invest in 'things they know' such as bricks and mortar.

It is the wrong type of deficit reduction.
......

John Key should have sent the message: we'll save money by spending less, not by investing less.
If we're going to create a savings culture we have to be serious about choosing future consumption over current consumption.
The government has chosen to prioritise current consumption over future consumption.

chubby · 13th May 2011, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

It was the final Lange government that made the traditional incentives used for superannuation scheme impossible in the NZ context. There's no viable way of fixing that particularly almighty stuff up. And I've had Cullen speak into my own ear that labour know that this was a stupendous cock up on their part.

just..... wow.

cyc · 13th May 2011, 22:42

Do you have something intelligent to say, Chubz?

cyc · 14th May 2011, 01:04

Is there a more hypocritical, obnoxious sack of shit in politics than Newt Gingrich?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2937633&page=1

FAMILY VALUES!!

12th May 2011, 10:03	#490
cyc Objection!	Labour reminds everyone that it's full of stupid http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10725042 FFS, you idiots: everyone knows that deals for fleet purchases of cars are done with the car manufacturer itself or at least their distributors in NZ and not local dealerships. If you want to shit stir, at least try harder.

12th May 2011, 20:19	#506
CCS Stunt Pants	Maybe bashing some engineering students with a length of hose would make him feel better. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

10th May 2011, 11:18	#482
crocos	Photoshop some images and look at what happens. __________________ Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية

10th May 2011, 19:40	#483
Lightspeed	http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...million-a-week Are we seriously borrowing ~$100 per person, per week in NZ? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

10th May 2011, 22:38	#484
fixed_truth	Those tax cuts not such a great idea now huh Bill? __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

10th May 2011, 22:51	#485
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Labour's plan: 1. Complain about the DPS 2. ... 3. Balanced budget!

10th May 2011, 22:54	#486
cyc Objection!	Don't forget: standing against Hawariwa in a pointless by-election!

11th May 2011, 10:57	#489
fixed_truth	I'm not sure that it's helpful to the National vote in highlighting that National yet again acted against something they campaigned on. National's economic mismanagement has failed New Zealand and the longer these guys are around the more the 'oh well they both suck, vote National' line wears thin. Cutting public services while maintaining top tier tax cuts is essentially a redistribution of funds from the bottom to the top. And you're (ie National supporters) are approving this. Ironically(?), National's term has shown the truth in Cullens 'pay off debt during an expansion so you can borrow to get out of recession'. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. Last edited by fixed_truth : 11th May 2011 at 10:59.

12th May 2011, 11:34	#491
fixed_truth	Yep Labour need to be pretty sure about these types of claims as if it turns out to be baseless they come across as desperate. Besides, it's not as if they have to try hard to find examples of Nationals dishonesty and incompetence. Key spouts his usual BS hoping that the general public will be fooled. Cunliffe responds by laying the smack down. http://www.benforshore.co.nz/tag/dodgy-statistics/ __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

12th May 2011, 15:35	#492
JP	I don't know why Labour don't just non stop talk about Asset Sales and shit like that. Don't talk about anything else, ignore everything else. Just hammer ASSET SALES ASSET SALES YOUR FUTURE THEYRE FUCKING WITH KIWISAVER YOUR FUTUREEEEEE! You just need to get a narrative going, might not be able to since the media seem to like National a lot for the most part, but narrative is all powerful for the uninformed voter, which is most of them. I mean 'Auntie Helen', was borderline American retarded, of course it took 3 terms to get to that point. But this National govt could easily be in that long, it seems entirely possible they could have pushed a lot of retarded narrative on him by that stage. It doesn't even have to make sense, you only need like less than a 5% push with how close elections are.

12th May 2011, 16:09	#493
cyc Objection!	Yawn. Of course National isn't doing great. But I am tired of Labour and Labour supporters telling the world how badly National is doing. People in government during shitty economic times almost always resort to BS. But as a party in opposition that's being fucking hammered in the polls, you've gotta do far more than saying "National sucks!" to get most people's votes. What are Labour's ideas on how to grow this country? TAX FREE ON FIRST $5000 and GST-FREE VEGES ain't it!

12th May 2011, 16:54	#496
aR Que	Unless you want taxes to increase, something has to be cut.

12th May 2011, 16:56	#497
xor	NZ doesn't have a flash record for saving for a retirement and with the govt not giving any incentive people simply won't save. It just becomes like any other super scheme.

12th May 2011, 19:03	#501
xor	Has labour even released their economic policy?

12th May 2011, 19:18	#502
fixed_truth	Nothing comprehensive as yet I don't think. After the budget or even closer to the election they'll have a better idea of how much further down English is gonna take us. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

12th May 2011, 19:42	#503
cyc Objection!	Oh I forgot: Phil Goff promised to play around with the Reserve Bank Act. GO LABOUR!

12th May 2011, 20:14	#505
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Maybe Hone's feeling a little bit fragile. If he needs counselling he should give his mother a call. She's good at that shit.

12th May 2011, 21:39	#507
adonis	I'd like to know why it was canceled.

12th May 2011, 23:18	#508
BadNova	Mana may miss by-election lol

13th May 2011, 09:16	#509
Golden Teapot Love, Actuary	So it seems that those in Kiwi Saver might actually need to do some saving? It's tough to find anything wrong with this idea. It is however abhorrent that for some people it's effectively tax-payers who are providing half of a person's "savings"; should this end? You bet.

13th May 2011, 10:53	#512
aR Que	Shock! Politicians have a sweeter deal than the rest of us.

13th May 2011, 20:41	#515
Golden Teapot Love, Actuary	It was the final Lange government that made the traditional incentives used for superannuation scheme impossible in the NZ context. There's no viable way of fixing that particularly almighty stuff up. And I've had Cullen speak into my own ear that labour know that this was a stupendous cock up on their part.

13th May 2011, 22:42	#519
cyc Objection!	Do you have something intelligent to say, Chubz?

14th May 2011, 01:04	#520
cyc Objection!	Is there a more hypocritical, obnoxious sack of shit in politics than Newt Gingrich? http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2937633&page=1 FAMILY VALUES!!