NZGames.com Forums
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Go Back   NZGames.com Forums > General > Open Discussion > Politics
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 8th February 2011, 18:50     #41
Lightspeed
 
Well, the context seemed to be a value laden fantasy about what to do with the poor who have "too many" children.

So yeah, maybe I missed that.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 19:11     #42
GM
 
I don't know why you're putting speech marks around 'too many children' because that is exactly what is happening, and it is an unfair burden on society.

We're asked to be sustainable when it comes to the Earth's resources, I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be the same for population.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 20:04     #43
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Well, the context seemed to be a value laden fantasy about what to do with the poor who have "too many" children.

So yeah, maybe I missed that.
There's a lot you miss. Sad, bro.
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 20:21     #44
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
I don't know why you're putting speech marks around 'too many children' because that is exactly what is happening, and it is an unfair burden on society.

We're asked to be sustainable when it comes to the Earth's resources, I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be the same for population.
What's an unfair burden on society? Children? Or just certain people's children? Excessive population growth in not an issue in NZ.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 20:59     #45
CCS
Stunt Pants
 


I've already gone over this. It contributes to the number of people living in poverty and perpetuates the cycle of poverty.
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 22:17     #46
Lightspeed
 
Yeah, that sounds like the kind of braindead thing you'd say.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2011, 23:03     #47
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Going to explain that?
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 08:21     #48
GRiM ReeFer
 
In a hostile environment families tend to have many children to covers losses, disease, famine, unfenced swimming pools...
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 10:25     #49
Pimp-X
Drunken Annoying
Superhero Bastard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Yeah, that sounds like the kind of braindead thing you'd say.
Clue up or shut up. You know how that works.
__________________
If there is one movement I could get behind in this world, it would be the discrimination and abuse of fucking idiots.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 10:57     #50
Lightspeed
 
o_O

So it's the Pimp-X way or the highway all of a sudden?
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 10:58     #51
fixed_truth
 
I think that LS has some good points.

New Zealand doesn't have an over-population problem, it's more that people don't like their tax dollars supporting other peoples kids.

Though what would happen to our population if these lower income families had 0, 1 or 2 kids like families with higher incomes? If we're talking about limiting people to 3 kids should we be looking at making it compulsory for those on higher incomes to have at least 2 kids? We need a steady supply of new kiwi's don't we? What about those 0-1 kid bludgers not contributing to NZ's population?

Hmmmmm
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 11:02     #52
crocos
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
New Zealand doesn't have an over-population problem
Not yet, no. However population growth is not necessarily a good thing - it's a matter of finding a balance.

On the other hand, capaitalist economics are based on continual population growth...
__________________
Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N

وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 12:42     #53
Pimp-X
Drunken Annoying
Superhero Bastard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
So it's the Pimp-X way or the highway all of a sudden?
No, I said clue up or shut up. Do you NOT know how that works?

You suffer from a severe case of "I'll interpret all things the way I want to, rather than the way they are expressed".

Also, just because you can think doesn't mean you think anything worthwhile.

Just because you can speak doesn't mean you should.

For fucks sake, CLUE UP OR SHUT UP.
__________________
If there is one movement I could get behind in this world, it would be the discrimination and abuse of fucking idiots.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:08     #54
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
I think that LS has some good points.

New Zealand doesn't have an over-population problem, it's more that people don't like their tax dollars supporting other peoples kids.

Though what would happen to our population if these lower income families had 0, 1 or 2 kids like families with higher incomes? If we're talking about limiting people to 3 kids should we be looking at making it compulsory for those on higher incomes to have at least 2 kids? We need a steady supply of new kiwi's don't we? What about those 0-1 kid bludgers not contributing to NZ's population?

Hmmmmm
Nobody is suggesting that there is an over-population problem nor is anyone suggesting that anybody be limited to a certain number of children. You're responding to an argument that has not been put forward.
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:09     #55
Spoon1
Mmm... Sacrilicious
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Well, the context seemed to be a value laden fantasy about what to do with the poor who have "too many" children.

So yeah, maybe I missed that.
Are you receiving government handouts for your children because you can't afford them without? If yes, stop having children because any more will be "too many".

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:19     #56
tilde
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
...We need a steady supply of new kiwi's don't we?...
can immigration be used to solve that particular population issue? (if there is one) why does it have to be babies born in NZ only that contribute?

IIRC from reading Stats NZ press releases NZ still has a steady inward migration positive figure even though that has dropped.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:21     #57
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Nobody is suggesting that there is an over-population problem nor is anyone suggesting that anybody be limited to a certain number of children. You're responding to an argument that has not been put forward.
Imo all that talk of paying people to get fixed so they can't have kids is suggesting this. Also GM brought up the issue of sustainable population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon1
Are you receiving government handouts for your children because you can't afford them without? If yes, stop having children because any more will be "too many".
So only people above a certain income should be allowed to have kids?
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

Last edited by fixed_truth : 9th February 2011 at 13:25.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:24     #58
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilde
can immigration be used to solve that particular population issue? (if there is one) why does it have to be babies born in NZ only that contribute?
Immigration would work. I'm just not sure that the average NZer would be ok with this long-term. ?
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:31     #59
Rince
SLUTS!!!!!!!
 
has Sue Bradford got nothing better to do?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4636...etition-appals
(and LOL at Stuff's spelling error in the URL/page title)
__________________
Slow internet is worse than no internet. It's like putting your penis in once and then being required to make out for 2 hours
--Matt "The Oatmeal" Inman
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:45     #60
Spoon1
Mmm... Sacrilicious
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
So only people above a certain income should be allowed to have kids?
No, they should be able to have kids without handouts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 13:48     #61
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Imo all that talk of paying people to get fixed so they can't have kids is suggesting this.
The only person that suggested that is Ab, to which I mentioned that I'd considered the idea and discarded it. Besides which, it's still not saying that the problem is one of population. In fact, I even made a point of saying that it's not a question of population growth. I also said that it's something that would be limited to people in certain circumstances. Again, you're confusing what the conversation is actually about. Keep in mind the impoverished woman who has 6 children and can't adequately look after them.

I hope you're not going to do a classic Lolspeed trick and start arguing about what we're arguing about.
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 14:34     #62
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
After the 3rd child, the govt will pay for you to have your tubes tied. Good idea, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
nor is anyone suggesting that anybody be limited to a certain number of children.
Lolspeed wat?
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 14:35     #63
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon1
No, they should be able to have kids without handouts.
Oh, so you think people on low incomes can actually afford to have kids?
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 14:42     #64
GM
 
Rolling eyes

.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 14:44     #65
GM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Oh, so you think people on low incomes can actually afford to have kids?
Oh so you think poor people should breed all of the children and rich people shouldn't?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 14:52     #66
fixed_truth
 
No I'm saying that it's very difficult to have kids without Govt. assistance when you're on a low income.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:02     #67
GM
 
So you're saying you can't have children on a low income?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:10     #68
tilde
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
No I'm saying that it's very difficult to have kids without Govt. assistance when you're on a low income.
it's also very difficult to have a house, a boat, a fancy car <insert generic highly priced consumable> when you're on a low income.

to present an extreme analogy, why not subsidise people on low incomes who buy a boat then?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:14     #69
Lightspeed
 
Children are not consumer goods.
__________________
Stay shook. No sook.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:26     #70
GM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Children are not consumer goods.
What are children?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:28     #71
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
So you're saying you can't have children on a low income?
You tell me. Minimum wage is approx. $429 per week after tax. Is this enough for at least 3 (we'll just ignore DPB for a minute) people to live on?
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:34     #72
GM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
You tell me. Minimum wage is approx. $429 per week after tax. Is this enough for at least 3 (we'll just ignore DPB for a minute) people to live on?
So 1 female with a child cannot survive on $429 per week excluding housing grants, is that what you're saying?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:41     #73
fixed_truth
 
lol this isn't that game on who's line is it anyway where you can only respond in a question.

If you've got an opinion on the matter then speak up.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:44     #74
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Lolspeed wat?
How do you read that and come to the conclusion that I'm suggesting a compulsory limit? All I wrote is that the govt would pay for a tube tying operation. Holy shit, guy, learn2read!
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:56     #75
tilde
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed
Children are not consumer goods.
fair call, however they still require upkeep regardless. and people make a conscious decision to have children, it's not like they wake up one morning and suddenly go... "this was out of my control!!!"
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 16:06     #76
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
How do you read that and come to the conclusion that I'm suggesting a compulsory limit? All I wrote is that the govt would pay for a tube tying operation. Holy shit, guy, learn2read!
Who said compulsory limit? I said "If we're talking about limiting people to 3 kids". Which I'm assuming you think would be a reality of your solution to limit benefit payments to only cover 3 kids.

Moving on.
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 16:12     #77
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
facepalm

The only person who is talking about a limit is you.
__________________
I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 16:13     #78
GM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Who said compulsory limit?
Who did?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 16:19     #79
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
The only person who is talking about a limit is you.
Derp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
How's this: government provides aid for low income families through benefits like DPB but only up to 3 children.
If you don't think that this would limit the number of kids these people would have, then why the fuck suggest it as a solution!?!
__________________
Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 16:21     #80
GM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
If you don't think that this would limit the number of kids these people would have, then why the fuck suggest it as a solution!?!
So your solution is to promote child birth amongst low income families and then get the tax payer to help fund them?

That's a dumb idea.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



© Copyright NZGames.com 1996-2023
Site paid for by members (love you guys)