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Old 15th June 2011, 12:15     #81
Lightspeed
 
Ah, politics... where the most important thing to know is who is to blame.
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Old 15th June 2011, 12:49     #82
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ^BITES^
If the IT company was not doing their job, then they hired a shit company or the requirements were badly defined or managed.
If the investigation confirms this then I hope someone will be held accountable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ^BITES^
So based on your daft logic, how exactly does failure to check critical work, or failure to define the service parameters to a contracted service indicate the ability to run a country?
My daft logic? You're the one with the informal fallacy.
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Old 15th June 2011, 13:00     #83
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Laugh

What's the bet all their IT work is done by Labour volunteers.
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Old 15th June 2011, 13:06     #84
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTiTus
Not sure this is 100% correct. "Options All" seems to be the default, which includes indexes. I don't think it's any less responsible to allow this to happen though - I'm in the habit of touch'ing index.php/htm to ensure the index option is largely irrelevant.
labour.org.nz appears to be running

Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) Phusion_Passenger/2.2.4 PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.17 with Suhosin-Patch

...and yeah, apache2 from the Ubuntu repository does have indexes enabled by default. My bad.

Yes totally on touching index.htm, that's just common sense.
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Old 15th June 2011, 14:11     #85
^BITES^
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
If the investigation confirms this then I hope someone will be held accountable.

My daft logic? You're the one with the informal fallacy.
Yup daft logic that by some godly means finding the EXACT person who fucked up will somehow make it "ok" for labour to fuck up this badly at managing their own website(or persons/company managing the website)... it doesn't .. give it the fuck up dumbass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Yes totally on touching index.htm, that's just common sense.
Common sense ... but not labours fault OK!!! We need to unearth that VITAL knowledge as it will prove labours innocence!
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Last edited by ^BITES^ : 15th June 2011 at 14:14.
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Old 15th June 2011, 14:23     #86
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
National HACKED into their SERVER and BREACHED their UBUNTU and deleted their INDEX.HTML file! NEFARIOUS! And then they told Cameron Slater!
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Old 15th June 2011, 14:25     #87
^BITES^
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
National HACKED into their SERVER and BREACHED their UBUNTU and deleted their INDEX.HTML file! NEFARIOUS! And then they told Cameron Slater!
I hear they also used that super elite tool that some of the more "tech savvy", (is that the right word "Savvy", I'm not good with computer) know of called "Google".

Hardcore and you can still access this powerful tool RIGHT NOW, AMAZING technology.

The internet .... a magical place.
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Old 15th June 2011, 14:31     #88
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I heard they used a MOZILLA to look at their IP ADDRESS!!
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Old 15th June 2011, 14:34     #89
BoyWonder
 
There could have been all sorts of gay things stored on the server - its a breach of human rights.
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Old 15th June 2011, 15:29     #90
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ^BITES^
Yup daft logic that by some godly means finding the EXACT person who fucked up will somehow make it "ok" for labour to fuck up this badly at managing their own website(or persons/company managing the website)... it doesn't .. give it the fuck up dumbass.
Nice strawman simpleton, your reading comprehension is fail, as usual. I've not said their fuckup is ok. I've simply stated that the circumstances of what happened is relevant to what action Labour carry out in regards to being responsible for the mistake.
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Old 15th June 2011, 15:55     #91
chubby
 
Rolling eyes

nice sperge rage kids.
feels good to have mastery dinnit!?
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Old 15th June 2011, 15:58     #92
^BITES^
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
So who's responsible for this security failure?
Your statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
I know the National Party were the ones who exploited the lack of security, I'm interested in who was responsible for this security in the first place.
"Oh shit I was wrong as I didnt actually read OR watch the video, time to change angle or they will figure out I was blindly supporting labour":
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Visiting a URL which gives you access to your oppositions private donor information that obviously wasn't intended to be made public - is exploiting the sites lack of security (even if legal and the info was public).
"Fuck they've figured out I'm baselessly backing Labour, Quick time to blame someone/something else!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
I agree that that the Labour Party might have a duty of care; but wont the investigation make clearer where/how much blame should be laid? I mean do we know that a company wasn't contracted to keep the website secure?
"Fuck lets completely change tact. Agree ... but not completely."
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
Of course ultimately the buck stops with the Labour Party. But what you don't seem to understand is that in the difference between Labour being careless vs a hired legitimate IT company not doing their job properly - is a difference in what action should be taken. I.e if the latter is true, I think that firing the Party Secretary is a bit severe.
The goal posts .. they are a movin.

Its due to bad management/vendor/administration or all of the above .... end of the day Labour fucked up on their own website, stop trying to pass the buck, you've been doing that since the start. Thats passing responsibility onto someone else to lessen the overall fact that they fucked up "ok" was the short version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chubby
nice sperge rage kids.
feels good to have mastery dinnit!?
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:23     #93
fixed_truth
 
facepalm

Try and keep up Bites.

National keeping it to themselves that private citizens confidential information was mistakenly been made public - is one issue.

How Labour deal with their fuck up - is ANOTHER issue.

Me having an issue with what National done doesn't mean I think that they're responsible for Labour making the info public in the first place.

Your stupid is giving me a headache.
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:26     #94
Lightspeed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ^BITES^
Its due to bad management/vendor/administration or all of the above .... end of the day Labour fucked up on their own website, stop trying to pass the buck, you've been doing that since the start. Thats passing responsibility onto someone else to lessen the overall fact that they fucked up "ok" was the short version.
Yes, blame, shame, they fucked up. Quality politics right here.
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:30     #95
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
fixed_truth, do you understand at a basic technical level what has gone wrong here?
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:33     #96
^BITES^
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
fixed_truth, do you understand at a basic technical level what has gone wrong here?
Nope I don't think he does, he probably thinks the internet is a series of pipes/tubes invented by al gore.
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:38     #97
Lightspeed
 
The goal post movin' troll is a good one. Because what you actually do is move the goal posts yourself, and then when whoever you're trolling takes aim at this new goal, you accuse them of moving the goal posts.

Quoting the person's posts as a narrative, hiding the fact that they were actually involved in a dialogue is a nice touch.
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:41     #98
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Rolling eyes

I'm surprised it took lolspeed this long to post something facepalmworthy. Usually he's straight in there on the first page.
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Old 15th June 2011, 16:41     #99
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
fixed_truth, do you understand at a basic technical level what has gone wrong here?
Labour has failed to keep it's donor information secure.
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Old 15th June 2011, 17:31     #100
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I meant on a level technical level. I think it's fair to say you don't.

Let's describe it like this. Labour published a lot of sensitive information on a huge billboard for anyone who drove past to see. Oh sure, the billboard was in a backwater with no sign posts, but it was there nonetheless. Their billboard hoarding guy never thought to cover up the billboard until such time as Labour put a fancy advertisment over the top of the sensitive information and, to be fair, wasn't told that he was supposed to.
Cameron Slater used my-ip-neighbors.com - let's think of it as a sort of automatically generated whitepages of billboards - to find out what billboards Labour had and then he drove past them. When he saw that this particular one had a lot of sensitive information on it, for anybody to see, he lolled had and marvelled at how foolish this was. He took a bunch of photos of this billboard. He came driving past it for a while after to see if it was still there because he couldn't believe that Labour had no idea they erected this billboard with a whole lot of sensitive information splashed across it. Then he blogged about it.
Oh yeah, and a person who works for the National party drove past it this one time and was so amazed at what he saw that he took a picture of it with his cellphone to show the boys at the office. But... but... but... clearly Labour didn't want people to see the billboard! I mean, sure, that put that stuff on a billboard for everyone to see but... they didn't mean for people to see it!

Now, fixed_truth, your grizzle seems to be that you think National should have called up the opposition party and said "Hey, guys... uhh... look, I don't wanna tell you how to run your shit but... do you know about this billboard?"

I don't see how it is even remotely the responsibility of National to look out for another party that ought to know how to sort their shit out like adults. The very notion that National should have told Labour about their fuck-up is laughable.
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Old 15th June 2011, 17:46     #101
fixed_truth
 
Yeah, I don't disagree with the gist of your analogy (though its not yet clear in what order things happened).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
Now, fixed_truth, your grizzle seems to be that you think National should have called up the opposition party and said "Hey, guys... uhh... look, I don't wanna tell you how to run your shit but... do you know about this billboard?"
I don't see how it is even remotely the responsibility of National to look out for another party that ought to know how to sort their shit out like adults. The very notion that National should have told Labour about their fuck-up is laughable.
Remember we're talking about citizens confidential information here (apparently including CC details). Now you're right that National has no obligation to help out Labour, but what about to the citizens who's information was there to be "photographed"? Arguably someone can say "boo hoo" for them but Imo they should have done something.
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Last edited by fixed_truth : 15th June 2011 at 17:50.
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:00     #102
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
I think you're incredibly naive.

Also, the order in which events occurred really doesn't make much difference at all.
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:13     #103
fixed_truth
 
Lolz naive. I'm actually not surprised that National failed to act here, but I'm naive because I expect the Govt. to do the right thing by its citizens eh. Choice.
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:20     #104
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
This isn't the responsibility so do make out like it is
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:27     #105
fixed_truth
 
Yeah it wasn't Nationals responsibility to secure the information in the first place. But why isn't it their responsibility to report something like this if they discover it? (not talking about legal responsibility here)
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:44     #106
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
So far, all we know is that a staffer had looked at the web site. We don't know any more than that. One guy. Not the government. Not the party. One guy who works for the party.

You seemed very desperate in your determination to implicate National in this no matter how tenuously. I suggest you give up.
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:56     #107
fixed_truth
 
Oh I see, when a Labour staffer fucks up it's all "The Labour PARTY is responsible for this". But when a National staffer does something it's "One guy. Not the government. Not the party. One guy who works for the party. "

And don't try on ^Bites^ trick of combining the two issues. I've stated on numerous occasions that Labour failing to secure it's website has nothing to do with National.
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Old 15th June 2011, 18:59     #108
CCS
Stunt Pants
 


I never said that it was. I'm still talking about your naive idea that National should have alerted Labour to their fuckup. The point being that just because this one staffer knew, doesn't mean the rest of the party knew.

I'm not trying to combine the issues. You're confused.
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Old 15th June 2011, 19:11     #109
fixed_truth
 
Cool bro. One staffer, sure. I'll let your mate ^Bites^ wank on to you for a few pages about how a company is responsibly for what its employees do/where the buck stops blah blah fuckity blah
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Old 15th June 2011, 19:16     #110
madmaxii
 
Don't know whether this has been asked before. Would Fixed_truth be so affronted if the National Party web site had made the same mistake? And would he be really surprised of Labour had taken advantage of it? And if he'd noticed it would he have reported the issue to the site administrator?
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Old 15th June 2011, 19:17     #111
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
Rolling eyes

I'm beginning to think you're a little bit nutty. Pretty bored of this conversation now. I'll leave you alone to rant to yourself about how National should be looking out for other people's screw ups.
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Old 15th June 2011, 19:24     #112
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxii
Don't know whether this has been asked before. Would Fixed_truth be so affronted if the National Party web site had made the same mistake? And would he be really surprised of Labour had taken advantage of it? And if he'd noticed it would he have reported the issue to the site administrator?
One could only speculate. Nice flamebait
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
I'll leave you alone to rant to yourself about how National should be looking out for it's citizens.
Fixed for truth.
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Old 15th June 2011, 19:32     #113
Golden Teapot
Love, Actuary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS
I'm beginning to think you're a little bit nutty.
Mental illness or plain and simple stupidity? Either way he can sometimes be mildly humorous whilst always remaining harmless.
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Old 15th June 2011, 19:40     #114
CCS
Stunt Pants
 
A bit of both I think.
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Old 15th June 2011, 21:30     #115
smudge
Ich Bin Ein Grey Lynner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxii
Would Fixed_truth be so affronted if the National Party web site had made the same mistake?
It wouldn't happen because national "website" and membership/donation systems are on different boxes.

I think thats the mistake labour made at a high level (and someone must go for it). How could this all be running on one box. How could the developer of one small campaign site be able to make a mistake which exposes the membership data. Serious errors at a high strategic level imo.
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Old 15th June 2011, 21:44     #116
Ab
A mariachi ogre snorkel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixed_truth
National should be looking out for it's citizens.
Lemme get this straight. Labour fucks up so comprehensively that it doesn't even know it has fucked up, and National has an obligation to help them out because it's the Government and the people who fucked up are citizens?
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Old 15th June 2011, 21:58     #117
MadMax
Stuff
 
maybe his point should be that if anyone found personal information openly displayed like that you'd hope they reported it, regardless of position or relationship to any party.
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Old 15th June 2011, 22:02     #118
drone
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smudge
It wouldn't happen because national "website" and membership/donation systems are on different boxes.

I think thats the mistake labour made at a high level (and someone must go for it). How could this all be running on one box. How could the developer of one small campaign site be able to make a mistake which exposes the membership data. Serious errors at a high strategic level imo.
lolwhut.

Are you seriously claiming what makes you secure is different servers?

This whole thread is providing great additions for my "Do Not Hire" list.
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Old 15th June 2011, 22:21     #119
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab
Lemme get this straight. Labour fucks up so comprehensively that it doesn't even know it has fucked up, and National has an obligation to help them out because it's the Government and the people who fucked up are citizens?
Again, there's no obligation to the Labour Party. I think that there's an obligation to the citizens who's confidential information was there for the taking without them knowing.

Yes by National doing the right thing by these people they would also be helping Labour, but I don't see this as a good reason not to act in this context.
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Old 15th June 2011, 22:24     #120
fixed_truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax
maybe his point should be that if anyone found personal information openly displayed like that you'd hope they reported it, regardless of position or relationship to any party.
Yes. You'd hope, even in the political battleground.
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