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17th November 2022, 12:57 | #1881 | |
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Blame and victimhood are really about politics, justifying who gets what resources, which becomes ever more acute as inequality escalates. That's what I see your reaction is about. It's not a reaction that's unique to you, it's all been said before. And that does leak out of these discussions, but what's being worked out is the more fundamental nature of our society. It's not just cause that "literally everything can be 'causally linked' to colonisation", there is significance to this, significance that bears consideration in less shrill contexts.
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Stay shook. No sook. Last edited by Lightspeed : 17th November 2022 at 12:59. |
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17th November 2022, 13:11 | #1882 |
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Piss off lightspeed.
You don't know anything about me, what I believe, what bores me, or even if I am an academic or not. Your grandstanding and pontification are seen exactly as what they are. The way you hedge your comments against others as being somehow from an academic point of view that elevates you above ignorance that you are intimating exists in other parties says all anyone needs to know about you. The added snark just cements it. You go on about others going for their dopamine squirt from questionable sources, yet you literally pervade it in your self stimming replies. Go ahead - do it again, reply again with the same "those more enlightened than the plebs, including you, see it differently" canned response wrapped in smug pontification. |
17th November 2022, 13:12 | #1883 |
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I'm only responding to what you're saying.
You got some weird ideas about me. Grandstanding, pontificating? When did you start reading NZG? lololz Fucking grow up.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
17th November 2022, 13:28 | #1884 |
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So your first stab - an appeal to academic authority - doesn't work.
You get called out on it, so the best you can do next is stoop to devaluing what I say by calling my 'ideas about you' weird or invalid somehow. Sit the fuck down dude. You're a broken record on this shit. |
17th November 2022, 13:51 | #1885 |
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I'm telling you what I know. You previously complained about me referring to academia. I was just trying to pre-empt us rehashing that, but I realise instead you're all triggered.
Does anyone want to let indigo know the last time I sat the fuck down when someone asked? 😄 They're obviously not a regular reader of the forum. Whining on about victimhood, you're so cringe.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
17th November 2022, 14:31 | #1886 |
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Nope. Not triggered.
Just calling a spade a spade. Last edited by _indigo1 : 17th November 2022 at 14:32. |
17th November 2022, 14:50 | #1887 | |
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Terrible racist colonial academic institutions! |
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17th November 2022, 14:56 | #1888 |
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Tell us you have no idea what goes on in academia without telling us you have no idea what goes on in academia.
I mean, at least the circles I've moved in (which is only a small subset of what's out there) academia calls itself out on its own colonial heritage. Oh noes, life is complex and hard, not obvious and simple! What to do?!?! lolololz
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Stay shook. No sook. Last edited by Lightspeed : 17th November 2022 at 14:57. |
17th November 2022, 15:01 | #1889 | |
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17th November 2022, 15:19 | #1890 |
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Why you gotta misrepresent so hard?
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Stay shook. No sook. |
17th November 2022, 15:23 | #1891 |
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Because that's the game the illiberal liberals play.
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17th November 2022, 15:36 | #1892 |
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I don't know who those people are, but they don't represent the majority of people doing the work I'm talking about.
I'm sure you can find examples, but what can't you find examples of on the Internet?
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Stay shook. No sook. |
17th November 2022, 15:52 | #1893 |
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This entire thread has examples, l2 scroll
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17th November 2022, 15:59 | #1894 | ||
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From the recent IPCC report that reignited the conversation. Quote:
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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17th November 2022, 16:11 | #1895 |
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Thanks for replying to the content.
Yes I agree with the part about pushing back on industrialist ideology with more ecocentric/nature-centric ideology which happens to be indigenous - or said another way, leveraging indigenous heritage we have a weapon to fight back against industrialist pressure. But I introduced the industrial aspect. The word used in the article was colonisation - and I disagree with it for the reasons I outlined - colonisation and industrialisation are different. It is not the colonisation that has caused the problem. It is industrialisation. That those are also colonial is coincidental in our country. Trying to conflate the two smacks of agenda injection. It's the same nonsense as intimating that science is a tool of western colonisation - it conveniently leaves out facts about the wider world that disproves it for the sake of pushing an ideology. Last edited by _indigo1 : 17th November 2022 at 16:12. |
17th November 2022, 16:23 | #1896 | |
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Sure colonisation spread industrialism and an ecotoxic culture to SOME parts of the world. But that is coincidental not causal, and it conveniently leaves out the large swaths of the world that suffer the same issues but were never colonised, at least in the narrow definition of colonisation that is being used mostly these days. Examples I already gave are China and Russia/USSR. Much of Europe. Etc etc. Of course if you want to argue that technically all of the world is that way due to colonisation at one point, then that dismantles the entire argument because you are saying that the act of migration is what has caused climate change in one manifestation - which is like - well yeah, duh? Once you get into that argument, then none of us are indigenous. Last edited by _indigo1 : 17th November 2022 at 16:26. |
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17th November 2022, 16:32 | #1897 |
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"Colonisation has suppressed indigenous ideology that can help us reign in the damaging, climate changing, ecocidal ideology of industrialisation" ✔
"Climate change is a manifestation of colonisation due to dominant capitalism values"❌ Last edited by _indigo1 : 17th November 2022 at 16:34. |
17th November 2022, 16:54 | #1898 | |
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Stay shook. No sook. |
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17th November 2022, 18:50 | #1899 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty, saved more people from starvation and disease and misery, than any other force in the history of the world.
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17th November 2022, 19:02 | #1900 |
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Yeah, it's wonderful being on the right end of that equation. The other end, not so much.
The climate, the genetic diversity of the planet, the exploited and enslaved, a stable future. All worthy sacrifices I suppose.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
17th November 2022, 19:37 | #1901 | ||
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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17th November 2022, 23:44 | #1902 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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As far as human happiness and wellbeing is concerned, this is the best world that has ever existed. There has never been a better time to be born than right now. If this is the world that capitalism has made, it's fucking awesome compared to every previous version of the world.
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18th November 2022, 00:00 | #1903 |
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It's a pretty useless story to tell tho, to those enduring deprivation, or just worried about the survival of the species.
That's without considering how humans being the social, competitive creatures we are, it doesn't matter how much better things are if there are stark disparities amongst us.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
18th November 2022, 06:46 | #1904 |
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^Yep that's a glaring hole in the Rational Optimist. Industrial capitalism is not organised to meet the needs of the people who participate in it, rather it allows individuals to complete with one another in order to maximize personal wealth. Which does have it's pros but as L.S said earlier do it's cons outweigh them?
Because if a very small portion of the population managed to take most of the wealth for itself or if hundreds of millions of people don't have food, shelter or healthcare, or if infrastructure, schools & hospitals are falling apart or if the planet and other species are being destroyed - none of this is a sign that the system is failing, it's simply operating as it was designed to do so.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. Last edited by fixed_truth : 18th November 2022 at 06:47. |
18th November 2022, 08:57 | #1905 |
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Yet all people benefit from the advancements provided by industrious individuals.
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18th November 2022, 10:32 | #1906 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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More people have been lifted out of poverty in the past twenty years than in all of the rest of human history. The infant mortality rate is the lowest ever recorded. The literacy rate is the highest ever. The percentage of the world’s population that lives in democratic countries is the highest ever. The percentage of the world’s population that has access to clean water and electric power is the highest ever.
Burn capitalism |
18th November 2022, 10:43 | #1907 | |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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I'm definitely pro-capitalism in theory, but the implementation of capitalism we have today definitely has its flaws - things like government regulations and control of the money supply are two obvious "corruptions" to pure capitalism which haven't always made things "better". America is both the wealthiest country in the world, and the most indebted - at the same time. Much like socialism, capitalism is great in theory, but human nature manages to spoil it. We also have aspects of socialism in our lives too, so it's not an argument of one vs the other. We have both at the same time, with pros and cons of both systems being apparent. As such, neither can be realised "properly", so we've got a hodge-podge ever evolving system, with no guarantee that things have or will improve linearly over time.
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
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18th November 2022, 10:53 | #1908 |
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@AB
Um yeah we've already been over a few times that capitalism has produced some positive outcomes so no need for shadow boxing. Whether the huge negative outcomes are justified or unavoidable are legitimate questions. There are examples of mixed-economies and systems that lean towards socialism which have positive outcomes but with less negative outcomes.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. Last edited by fixed_truth : 18th November 2022 at 10:54. |
18th November 2022, 12:01 | #1909 |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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To get back to the original point, I don't think climate change is a direct result of "colonisation". If we assume it's real, and a result of fossil fuels and industry, rather than a hypothetical scenario pushed by people in power, then it's simply a result of burning fossil fuels. If there's an undiscovered tribe that has not yet been "colonised" then they will be subject to its effects just like everyone else. No matter how sustainably they live, or unspoiled their culture is. So if Maori and Aboriginal Australians had not suffered through being colonised (acknowledging both negative and positive changes to their lives), they would still have a hypothetical 2C warming to cope with, and their houses along the coast being potentially submerged by rising sea levels, or whatever is supposed to happen.
It's stupid to say "colonisation causes climate change" - burning fossil fuels is the apparent cause, and every single one of us can choose not to live a life with fossil fuels, but we don't, because it's much easier to use abundant energy than be Amish. It's probably more appropriate to say that "seeking constant return on investment with interest bearing debt requiring more and more energy to produce goods to pay the debt" caused climate change. Therefore, the Jews :P
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
18th November 2022, 12:03 | #1910 |
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That capitalism is so successful but we still have all this misery, injustice, deprivation, that's an indictment on us.
We have so much and still we can't stop for a moment to reach a hand out to those struggling in our communities. Entropy says "capitalism is cool and all, but what else ya got?" We better come up with an answer to that question, cause entropy got no chill.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
18th November 2022, 12:53 | #1911 |
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Then look at your own value system to see how you can help those in need and not the state.
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18th November 2022, 13:01 | #1912 |
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I'm doing both.
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18th November 2022, 14:13 | #1913 |
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Yeah, cool. Good luck trying to raise capital for some awesome product in a non-capitalist world. You might have an idea that could save millions of people but it'd never see the light of day because you'd be missing the the investors that would help establish it.
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18th November 2022, 14:21 | #1914 |
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I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm arguing for progress beyond capitalism.
I'm both doing the little I can, and calling for the community and government to do their parts.
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18th November 2022, 23:56 | #1915 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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19th November 2022, 11:37 | #1916 | |
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19th November 2022, 18:04 | #1917 |
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Only as they lose relevancy. Gender reveal parties suggest probably not until at least the children being born now are adults.
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Stay shook. No sook. |
21st November 2022, 10:16 | #1918 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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UK Ministry of Justice issues directive warning staff not to use transphobic speech such as the phrase “protecting women and girls”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...g-women-could/ |
22nd November 2022, 22:36 | #1919 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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23rd November 2022, 06:42 | #1920 |
*flex*
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wtf
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