National Thus Far

[cyc]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

But yeah, they could be just telling the Union what they want to hear in order to secure future work. o_O

That might have been expressed as a sarcasm but COULD exactly be what's happened. Contrast that with, for example, serious economic reports used by parties in Commerce Act hearings in courts -- in those cases, the experts explicitly agree to abide by the code of conduct for expert witnesses under the High Court Rules, their reports are usually peer reviewed prior to being used in court, AND the experts are subject to before-hearing gatherings involving competing experts to clearly discern their points of difference and to moderate their viewpoints, and are cross-examined before a bench consisting of a High Court judge and an impartial economist.

You show us work of that standard from experts in similar contexts, then it'll be real proof something. Let's face it, if someone to the right of yourself trotted out a report by some economist in favour of economic positions that you don't like, would you for one moment accept it as "proof" of anything?

Double standards, anyone? Then again, hard left idiots like yourself have never cared for intellectual honesty.

[Lightspeed]

Hahah, rabid as always, cyc.+

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by cyc

That might have been expressed as a sarcasm but COULD exactly be what's happened.

Of course it "could". However we're talking about a reputable company here so it's not unreasonable to present this as an analysis which suggests that the NZ option is the best.

Originally Posted by cyc

Let's face it, if someone to the right of yourself trotted out a report by some economist in favour of economic positions that you don't like, would you for one moment accept it as "proof" of anything?

Nice strawman intellectual honest guy. I didn't say this was "proof", just that it's research from a reputable company and so probably holds a bit more weight than layman NZgames opinion.

Originally Posted by cyc

Then again, hard left idiots like yourself have never cared for intellectual honesty.

Haha nice strawman, again. Misprepresenting me on your imaginary political spectrum to try and bolster your already weak argument based on me saying it was "proof" when I didn't - is pretty poor form.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Nice strawman intellectual honest guy. I didn't say this was "proof", just that it's research from a reputable company and so probably holds a bit more weight than layman NZgames opinion.

Err, no. You started off by responding to Lolspeed's argument that a report commissioned by a union isn't very compelling proof of anything by responding that Berl is a very reputable agency based on quoting merely its own fucking profile. Seriously, everyone calls themselves reputable. By taking the stance that you did, you've gone well beyond merely saying that the report is consistent with what you believe.

The reason I assessed you as a hard left idiotic dipstick is that what you post on here never deviate from the typical hard "leftie" views. Of course, political views can't be completely accurately captured on a straight continuum but the word "leftie" that's just a general description. Do you really think you're some sort of rational centrist, intellectually dishonest scum?

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by cyc

Err, no. You started off by responding to Lolspeed's argument that a report commissioned by a union isn't very compelling proof of anything

Lightspeed said "report by a trade union". The word 'commissioned' wasn't used. Hence why two people pointed out that it wasn't a report by a trade union and I provided a link to the company that actualy carried out the report.

Originally Posted by cyc

by responding that Berl is a very reputable agency based on quoting merely its own fucking profile. Seriously, everyone calls themselves reputable.

I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that BERL is reputable from the information on it's home page. Eg, it shows amoung many things that it's been around for over 50 years and has an extensive client base.

Originally Posted by cyc

By taking the stance that you did, you've gone well beyond merely saying that the report is consistent with what you believe.

Haha now you're just getting desperate. You're the one using the word proof in quotation marks like that was something I actually said. You took from this, that I was asserting "definitive proof that you are correct".

Originally Posted by cyc

The reason I assessed you as a hard left idiotic dipstick is that what you post on here never deviate from the typical hard "leftie" views. Of course, political views can't be completely accurately captured on a straight continuum but the word "leftie" that's just a general description. Do you really think you're some sort of rational centrist, intellectually dishonest scum?

You're entitled to your opinion on me, just don't let that bias distort what I've said, as you've done here. You really need to sort out your self-esteem issues or minority issues, or whatever problem it is that seems to make you incapable of communicating without raging on this forum. Rabid. Yes, that is a good word for you.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

You're entitled to your opinion on me, just don't let that bias distort what I've said, as you've done here. You really need to sort out your self-esteem issues or minority issues, or whatever problem it is that seems to make you incapable of communicating without raging on this forum. Rabid. Yes, that is a good word for you.

Raging about you? More like laughing at and not mincing words about your stupid tendencies. People like you have this idea that anyone who doesn't suck you off is in some kind of rage mode. Get over yourself, not everyone cares to be some kind of care bear towards you.

[Lightspeed]

Hahahaaah, "people like you".

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Hahahaaah, "people like you".

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH LOLspeed you're so deep and insightful.

[Lightspeed]

I'm insightful enough to know that you can't know people based on what they say on the Internet. Perhaps for you that is a little deep?

[cyc]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I'm insightful enough to know that you can't know people based on what they say on the Internet. Perhaps for you that is a little deep?

Lightspeed, let's just say many of us know this: you're an intellectually dishonest wanker.

Edit: Maybe you can be a politician.....

[Lightspeed]

Just like many people know you're going to hell for not believing in Christ/Muhammad, eh?

[chubby]

Originally Posted by cyc

intellectually dishonest

already sick of the new NZG meme.
could somone try a new one?

[JP]

Welp, war on the poor is high on the priority list it seems. It makes me sad that it's 2011, and politics still revolves around short sighted agenda. Humanity is facing real issues, and will only face more at an increasing pace as we advance in knowledge/capabilities.

We produce more every single year. I think people need to take that into their heads. We are told to cut and tighten every year, yet we produce more every year. Where do you think all that wealth is going?

Every year since the 70s education/health should have increased in funding. We should have kids so smart it's fucking up society's heirachy.

Instead we still have people pushing for cambridge because 'memorisation'!.

[cyc]

Originally Posted by chubby

already sick of the new NZG meme.
could somone try a new one?

It might be a meme to you but I and others have been saying this for years.

Originally Posted by JP

We produce more every single year. I think people need to take that into their heads. We are told to cut and tighten every year, yet we produce more every year. Where do you think all that wealth is going?

Every year since the 70s education/health should have increased in funding. We should have kids so smart it's fucking up society's heirachy.

In general I agree with your sentiments but I don't think this is quite accurate. In theory, NZ has been growing in most (certainly not every) years over the last two decades but in real purchasing terms we are actually falling behind our main trading partners because they are growing faster. Unless you subscribe to a form of autarky, the things needed for health and education often neeed to be bought from overseas. Catch the drift? Our buying power isn't increasing.

The underlying issue facing NZ is that this is both a stagnating economy "led" by two major parties who have zero ideas about how to grow it AND with both competing with the other to engage in the most punitive, pointless, and shortsighted policies that would exacerbate social ills typically associated with having a stagnating economy.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by JP

If you have a boat bring out the Holden or whatever sure, but people should be driving to work/around town in vehicles as efficient as possible.

If a car is new, then it isn't efficient.

[doppelgänger of someone]

Back in my days, we use "idiot" instead of a mouthful "intellectually dishonest".

[CCS]

Oh, there are many labels equally applicable to Lolspeed.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger of someone

Back in my days, we use "idiot" instead of a mouthful "intellectually dishonest".

Yeah, but idiots are a dime a dozen on the webbernets, clearly I'm something special. Maybe not Roly Hei Hei special, but still special.

[[LvN]N3misiS]

Originally Posted by JP

Welp, war on the poor is high on the priority list it seems. It makes me sad that it's 2011, and politics still revolves around short sighted agenda. Humanity is facing real issues, and will only face more at an increasing pace as we advance in knowledge/capabilities.

We produce more every single year. I think people need to take that into their heads. We are told to cut and tighten every year, yet we produce more every year. Where do you think all that wealth is going?

The bigger issue is capatilism and free markets which require constant growth. This growth cannot go on forever when we live on a planet that has finite resources.

[Lightspeed]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Protest-plann...3/Default.aspx

The Government has already signalled changes to welfare, with Prime Minister John Key saying New Zealand should be ashamed many remain on the benefit for years, even though work is available to them.

It'd be interesting to see how the government can demonstrate that there are beneficiaries not seeking work more suited for available work than beneficiaries actively seeking work.

At least 4% of our workforce must be interested in finding and able to work, if you take into account that a few years ago unemployment was around 3% and is now around 7%. Unless we're assuming those 4% got lazy all of a sudden.

[A Corpse]

I'd love to see the faces on all these slacker dolebludger fuckwits right now that voted National. BAHAHAHAH SELF-PWNED WITH EASY!

[fixed_truth]

Maybe getting these long-term unemployed people into training courses etc so the have some skills that make them more attractive to employers? Because yeah, when you've got thousands applying for 150 jobs then those long-term unemployed people ain't got a show.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10621612

[leadinjector]

i was on the benefit for a couple of weeks while in between finishing a course and starting a job. from my observations, id say 90% of the people i met had no desire to get a job. there was nothing physically stopping them from getting a job- washing cars or what have you, they just didnt fucking want to.

hell they were smart about it, i actually couldn't figure out how a lot of them managed to do it, they were obviously far better at working the system than I. with the recession obviously that would have changed, and it would be interesting to see how much

[Saladin]

Step 1. Cut training incentives and early childhood education subsidies that help people get off benefits
Step 2. Wait a year or two for memory of Step 1 to fade.
Step 3. Have "independent" working group release Welfare recommendations straight out of one of Rand's wet dreams. (Soylent Green is people!)
Step 4. Appear moderate by implementing lesser suggestions, and implementing "new" training incentives and early childhood education subsidies at lower levels than previously offered.
Step 5. Cackle maniacally as the left wing blogs splutter madly while the rest of the country applauds your new incentives! (John Key is a man of the people!)

[^BITES^]

Originally Posted by leadinjector

i was on the benefit for a couple of weeks while in between finishing a course and starting a job. from my observations, id say 90% of the people i met had no desire to get a job. there was nothing physically stopping them from getting a job- washing cars or what have you, they just didnt fucking want to.

Agreed .. I'm the opposite ... I never want to go on the benefit unless basically I've exhausted every other option ... but at the same time I was learning this I lived with a guy almost exactly like the one you posted above ....
Total Mooch ... never wanted to work .. and the excuses .. jesus christ I gotta admit he was good at those ....

No real reason for not working other than CounterStrike 1.6 .... lol

[[Malks] Pixie]

I was on and off the UB over a 2 - 3 year period whilst I was temping. The people (clients) you see in the office are usually those who have no desire to get into work - or have had incredible difficulty in finding decent work and have become disillusioned with the entire system. The ones you don't see are the majority who only come in when they are required too - the rest of the time they are looking for work as W&I were so slack with actually putting people forward for jobs.

Ironically I was classed as "long term unemployed" despite the fact that during that 2 -3 year period I had contracts for at least 18 months worth - however due to the fact it was not permanant work my benefit was never ceased (as when I finished a contract, if I didn't have another one sorted out it would then kick in). I had a case manager try and go balistic at me in the office before I pointed out to them that,

a) W&I had never even referred me to a job in the years that I had been signed up, even when I had (on the odd occasion) expressed interest and asked them to forward my details through to the employer they never had and,

b) During that period I had been working for more than 75% of the time...

Dizzy bint hadn't even bothered too look up my record before trying to lay into me - turned out that she got her job as a case manager after being forced into it after 6 years on the UB (and she was about the same age as me).

Pixie

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by leadinjector

i was on the benefit for a couple of weeks while in between finishing a course and starting a job. from my observations, id say 90% of the people i met had no desire to get a job. there was nothing physically stopping them from getting a job- washing cars or what have you, they just didnt fucking want to.

I think it could be argued, not many people are going to pay some guy on the side of the road to wash your car. Certainly not 3-7% of the population.

Besides, you're basically saying that the 4% of people who were employed but are now unemployed somehow morphed into these lazy fuckers you've got in your head.

[[Malks] Pixie]

The actual unemployment rate has to be higher as well - if I'm not mistaken the often quoted rate is derived from those drawing on the UB. I know plenty of people who are not employed and yet not on the UB (like myself) - many households have simply eneded up cut down to one income - and this simply isn't reflected in the statistics.

Pixie

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I think it could be argued, not many people are going to pay some guy on the side of the road to wash your car. Certainly not 3-7% of the population.

Besides, you're basically saying that the 4% of people who were employed but are now unemployed somehow morphed into these lazy fuckers you've got in your head.

im not talking about guys with water bottles dumbass, im talking about serfs who work as washers at places like toyota. i used to spend my summers being the carwashing bitch for volvo in between uni.

[Lightspeed]

And when you were working at these places, there was never enough staff, providing limitless employment thus proving the only reason people don't have jobs is because they're lazy?

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

And when you were working at these places, there was never enough staff, providing limitless employment thus proving the only reason people don't have jobs is because they're lazy?

first of all, i didnt say the reason people couldnt get jobs was due to laziness. i said that when i was there, there were a shitload of these kind of jobs going, and it would be interesting to go to a WINZ work meeting and see how thick that booklet is now. but while i WAS there, the majority of the bludgers simply could not be fucked picking up the phone.

while i worked as a bitchboy cleaning cars etc (job title was as a valet or something) over the course of a few months i would usually have a new partner every 6 weeks, either because they were thieving idiots (had one guy who took a cheque from a car to a bank round the corner and tried to cash it.... hyuk) or just didnt show up to work half the time. for those people, who are often the same people i hear bitching about getting jobs, i have little sympathy. not the same as people who are laid off from a downsizing company, and have limited skillsets which make getting work elsewhere difficult.

[[LvN]N3misiS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

And when you were working at these places, there was never enough staff, providing limitless employment thus proving the only reason people don't have jobs is because they're lazy?

Every post you make goes a little further to convincing me you are a complete retard

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by leadinjector

first of all, i didnt say the reason people couldnt get jobs was due to laziness.

You said "because they didn't fucking want to", so either they're belligerent, or lazy (or both.) Unless there's a third option I'm missing?

Perhaps I missed what you were saying though and I went off on my own tangent. I don't disagree that such people exist, whether or not it's around 90% of job seekers/unemployed/people in your local winz office.

I just don't see the point of focusing resources on getting these people looking for jobs where there are plenty of people who would gladly take a job if it was there. Focus resources on finding employment for active job seekers.

[Golden Teapot]

I'm currently recruiting for 3 jobs all of which have salaries either close to or considerably exceeding $100k. Applicants are, to say the least, thin on the ground. I think inevitably one or more of these roles will end up being filled by an immigrant plucked fresh from an overseas market.

Perhaps this situation represents a microcosm of wider NZ? There are jobs but not for the skills job seekers have.

We force children to go to school to help them develop skills that may allow them to play an active part in society later in life. Perhaps the same needs to be true of some adults who have fallen from glory?

[tilde]

Originally Posted by Golden Teapot

I'm currently recruiting for 3 jobs all of which have salaries either close to or considerably exceeding $100k. Applicants are, to say the least, thin on the ground. I think inevitably one or more of these roles will end up being filled by an immigrant plucked fresh from an overseas market.

are you referring to actual applicants, or more the case of quality applicants for those jobs? what sector or industry (i am guessing insurance?)

is the pay range markedly higher for the same positions overseas, let's say aus as a reference country?

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by tilde

are you referring to actual applicants, or more the case of quality applicants for those jobs? what sector or industry (i am guessing insurance?)

is the pay range markedly higher for the same positions overseas, let's say aus as a reference country?

Probably an actuary, actually.

[Golden Teapot]

Originally Posted by tilde

are you referring to actual applicants, or more the case of quality applicants for those jobs? what sector or industry (i am guessing insurance?)

is the pay range markedly higher for the same positions overseas, let's say aus as a reference country?

A low number of applicants. This is not too surprising really given there's not exactly a fluid market for this type of role; if anything the issue is that roles have been created in Auckland over the last couple of years much more quickly than people are able to move through the ranks.

The remuneration package is not unreasonable compared to the markets where people might choose to go.

[Lightspeed]

Can anyone spot the correlation in these two links?

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...-quake-funding

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ding-cuts.html

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...-quake-funding

I really hope middle & low income earners aren't solely targeted to fund the rebuilding of Christchurch.

[cyc]

.... on your way out, Simon Power

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ower-to-retire

Worst fucking Minister of Justice ever. All of the criminal law reforms have been giant fucking jokes under this clownboat.