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30th March 2022, 14:44 | #1241 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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it's like you didn't even read the thing you're quoting
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30th March 2022, 14:55 | #1242 |
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What do you think I missed?
I don't think the world is aiming for fairness, but rather equality, which sometimes is unfair. However the outcomes are better, as it allows diversity to thrive, and diversity is essential to maximising our ability to survive as a species. Children and adults can compete is spelling bees. There are many children who would beat competent adults. If we can't do that in a way that carefully holds children, as should always be the case for children, then it's probably best we leave it out. Spelling bees, like soccer games and swim meets, aren't essential to life. If there are problems with those things alternatives are only limited by our imagination. Of course, the reality is we plunge our children into the direst of circumstances so... the point seems very moot.
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30th March 2022, 17:14 | #1243 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Thought experiment - imagine that it's a children's spelling bee with only 8 spots, so it's now one adult and seven children. Now imagine that missing out on being in that spelling bee will determine the course of child number eight's entire life. But yay diversity - a broader range of competitor ages! Trans children are children!
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30th March 2022, 17:20 | #1244 |
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That reminds me of "wholesome" posts on social media that are really just people finding small success while struggling with dystopia.
Children having their lives determined by such arbitrary circumstances is horrifying. I'm not going along with that. Fuck that.
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30th March 2022, 17:28 | #1245 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Whatever you do, don't watch the documentary "Waiting for 'Superman'" sober.
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30th March 2022, 19:25 | #1246 | |
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And that gives them the ability to fit in and have a feeling of just being kid, and participating with the people they feel comfortable with. It gives them a sense of belonging. |
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30th March 2022, 19:28 | #1247 | |
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30th March 2022, 19:45 | #1248 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Yes, but red herring: testosterone levels are proven to have fuck-all to do with the physical advantages that men have over women.
Any time someone brings up testosterone levels in a discussion of women's rights to fair competition, it means that person is either ignorant or trying to sabotage the discussion. |
31st March 2022, 10:12 | #1249 |
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Is there anything wrong with simply drawing the line at biological sex assigned at birth?
Doesn't that settle all gender orientated arguments? Or am I not being #inclusive enough.
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31st March 2022, 10:25 | #1250 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Because that would suggest that biological sexual is binary and immutable, which is of course true, but which is denied as a matter of religious faith by identity politics cultists. To have their religious beliefs disproven - even questioned - would cause them literal harm. The thoughts do violence.
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31st March 2022, 12:11 | #1251 |
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I was thinking along the same lines as CB; except why not just remove gender all together as, and I'm probably naïve here, it seems to be mostly it's just a proxy for weight class?
Or something else unpinned from specific gender but more specific to body composition? Last edited by _indigo1 : 31st March 2022 at 12:12. |
31st March 2022, 12:12 | #1252 | |
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31st March 2022, 13:47 | #1253 | |
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31st March 2022, 14:24 | #1254 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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31st March 2022, 14:36 | #1255 |
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There is no such thing as an average man or woman.
There is unfairness everywhere. A significant volume of which is generated by strict gender norms. It's cool you like sport. Weak justification for imposing yourself on others.
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31st March 2022, 15:02 | #1256 | |
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It's not a matter of case by case, because you're talking about international sport. Who chooses the deciding factor. Heck even if you're talking about high school rugby, who chooses the deciding factor? Susan can play, but Sarah can't because she's a bit better oh and was also a male last term. It would be a matter of time until all open class women sports are dominated by transitioned women that were born male. Or is it fine, as long as they're a bit shit and don't win any medals.
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ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ Last edited by Cyberbob : 31st March 2022 at 15:04. |
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31st March 2022, 15:49 | #1257 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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it's not just about the winning. |
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31st March 2022, 16:31 | #1258 | ||
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I assume it would work similar to how sports bodies do it now but ironically with more consideration of whether an athletes circumstances & performance makes them more suited to the open rather than women's division. Factors considered would probably include length, age started & type of transition. Athletes age, height, weight, body fat %, hormone levels. And yeah, if they're consistently performing above the top level for that sport. Quote:
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. Last edited by fixed_truth : 31st March 2022 at 16:32. |
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31st March 2022, 19:35 | #1259 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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8th April 2022, 03:13 | #1260 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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8th April 2022, 04:03 | #1261 | |
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SLAMMED!!!
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I wonder what it's like having a theoretical gender experience. Lucky there are people so eager to make sure it's clear what actual experiences are.
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8th April 2022, 11:29 | #1262 |
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Yep. As a society we are slowly progressing past our archaic biocentricm towards a definition that includes people who live as woman.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
8th April 2022, 12:40 | #1263 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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That's the thing about objective reality, it doesn't care what people believe. That sex is binary and immutable is just... true. The freaky bit about the parliamentary exchange quoted above is that the Health Secretary was obviously too scared to even attempt an answer.
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8th April 2022, 13:47 | #1264 |
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Indeed, all truth is God's truth.
That's what this is about right? The bible and many other ancient texts seem clear what a man and a woman are right? That's what the GOP wants to hear when it asks for a definition. When a white man is challenging a black woman on the definition of a woman, he's thinking about what the bible tells him. Now I don't see it, Bible don't read that way to me. And I've had way too many experiences with various kinds of gender experiences, my own and others, to think anything so naive that men are men and women are women. But I get it's super-hard to see outside of what you've been raised in.
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8th April 2022, 14:25 | #1265 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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I keep coming back to that previous thought experiment about achieving a Banks Culture-esque level of biotech where we COULD change sex. "What are you doing over the holidays?" "I'm lying low, getting my 23rd chromosome pair repaired and transitioning back to female, gonna be growing breasts and waiting for my testicles to get reabsorbed" "cool"
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8th April 2022, 14:28 | #1266 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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8th April 2022, 14:44 | #1267 |
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We can hear about what individuals have to say. We can't hear what women in general are concerned about because there's no such generalisable phenomenon.
Awkward huh? This is what grappling with reality is like. It transcends us. It's only by abstracting from reality can we come up with neat and tidy definitions. So insisting we live by our tidy definitions, without leaving space for what we know inevitably won't fit, leaves us out of step with reality. And the longer we stay out of step with reality, the harsher the correction will be. What we're facing right now is a correction. And it hurts, hence all the tears. But the grown ups amongst us, those who enjoy their positions thanks to decades of demonstrated competence aren't going to placate us with some new cooked up definition. They're letting us sit with the discomfort, because we're going to have to get used to it.
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8th April 2022, 14:57 | #1268 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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"What are women saying about this?"
"Well, there's no real consensus as to what 'women' are, or even if they exist in a meaningful sense" |
8th April 2022, 15:13 | #1269 | |
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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8th April 2022, 15:57 | #1270 | |
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We could make an evidenced based guess on what the consensus is. And, especially if we're relying on appropriate robust evidence, we would likely be able to find problems with that consensus, see how that consensus impacts on people. Dramatically. How it perpetuates systems of power over people. Large volumes of people. And how that power is very often exploited to traumatic effect. Which is bad for the economy. Seriously. Altruism provides some small pressure, but economic sense is the driving force.
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8th April 2022, 20:01 | #1271 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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8th April 2022, 20:38 | #1272 | |
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Well he kinda did in a politicking way.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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9th April 2022, 18:04 | #1273 |
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How is society progressing when the health system scans 100% of the population for breast or testicular cancer?
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9th April 2022, 18:11 | #1274 |
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Yes its uncomfortable, I feel light I'm being gaslighted. Its a horrible feeling.
Human beings can be whatever they want to "be" but a rose by any other name still smells the same way. |
9th April 2022, 18:37 | #1275 |
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The difference is a doctor pronouncing to their patients they're either a man or a woman and they're this. And that pronouncement resonating far beyond the privacy of a medical clinic.
Or a doctor explaining to their patients their model of biology and for the purposes of xyz this model understands these things about your physiology, something which will be kept in strict medical confidence. And that confidence being maintained. Freeing people to participate in society the way they choose, rather than being compelled to adhere to biological models, enduring all that society hangs on these things, so that sport is fair. It's made out like it's all about gender swapping. When the great volume of flexibility people would benefit from would be being their own kind of man, their own kind of woman. But that's not possible while there's an absolute about what men and women are. As it is, if I'm your boss, your daughter's oncologist, a cop asking for your license, the council officer approving your build, you're unconsciously adjusting yourself to fit what you imagine my gender expectations to be. And you should be, if you want things to go easily for you, which is why you do it.
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10th April 2022, 12:48 | #1276 | ||
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
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10th April 2022, 15:53 | #1277 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Women who have been beaten and raped by men should have -- what's the term? -- safe spaces where they can seek help without men around. Crazy cultural consideration, I know.
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10th April 2022, 16:44 | #1278 |
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You've got much experience with places that offer safety for the beaten and raped? Gender dysphoria and other related concerns have the trained and experienced stumped?
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10th April 2022, 17:33 | #1279 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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I think all victims of beatings and rapings need support and protection. All lives matter.
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10th April 2022, 17:39 | #1280 |
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Oh, you're doing a bit.
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