Labour Officially Announce Trying to Fuck Up GST

[mpx]

Well I dunno about you but I can't grow McDonalds in my back yard like I do with fruit and veg. It isn't that expensive if you take a positive action towards it~

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Ab

A couple of weeks ago I was shopping at Manukau Pak'n'Save. I could not believe the purchasing -- and thus eating -- habits on display. Aisle after aisle of enormous about-to-drop-dead-of-diabetes Polynesians with trolleys full of 2L bottles of carbonated flavoured coloured water, chocolate biscuits, chips, and candy bars.

It was fucking nuts. The produce section was almost devoid of shoppers, but the "confectionary" aisle was a madhouse.

[Rocket]

Originally Posted by mpx

Well I dunno about you but I can't grow McDonalds in my back yard like I do with fruit and veg. It isn't that expensive if you take a positive action towards it~

yeh thats key. will do once i have a back yard save yourself alot of money. should be able to claim back on that kinda stuff i say.

Hell, they pay for insulation schemes why not have a vege garden building scheme.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Rocket

Its expensive to eat healthy, and i think it'll benefit the taxpayer to help make healthier items cheaper, but this isnt the way I guess.

Or you could get people to eat healthy based on the merits of... you know, eating healthy food. If they still don't want to then I guess it's their choice.

CCS not too fussed over your post mate. relax.

Fuck you're a moron. Isn't there an Australian message board you can post on?

[Rocket]

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Rocket

[xor]

Making healthy food cheaper won't help solve the problem with fatties being fat. I worked at Mangere Mcdonalds when I was a teenager. The amount of money people spent there was stupid. They'd take the whanau and easily spend $50. Oh, and they were all black (or brown if that's what you call an Pacific Islander, Mari)

[Redneck]

It certainly is not expensive to eat healthy - it just takes more physical effort to cook up a decent stir fry than to shovel chocolates into your mouth

[CCS]

I wonder what the state of Home Economics in school is these days. Everyone did it at my intermediate school and I don't remember a lot about it. I guess I must have learnt some basics of how to cook stuff and they probably showed us the food pyramid and shit like that.

Does anyone know if all schools do Home Economics these days and do they make kids learn useful recipes?

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by xor

Making healthy food cheaper won't help solve the problem with fatties being fat. I worked at Mangere Mcdonalds when I was a teenager. The amount of money people spent there was stupid. They'd take the whanau and easily spend $50. Oh, and they were all black (or brown if that's what you call an Pacific Islander, Mari)

*sigh* Removing GST on fruit and vegetables is not meant to be some kind of silver bullet for public health. This is only part of the reform needed to change peoples eating habits. The point people aren't getting is that making fruit & veg more accessible is a necessary part of the process of making changes for improvement in peoples health and lifestyle choices.

[CCS]

Allow myselves to regurgitate writings from Russell Brown:

But assuming it is passed on in its entirety to consumers – not a given – a 15% move in fruit and vegetable prices is insignificant in comparison to the seasonal movement in prices, or even the gap between different outlets at any time of year. At my local Fruit World, small heads of broccoli are currently $3.49 (it's all that rain); in three months' time I'll be able to buy one twice the size for 99 cents. It would be interesting to know what effect these regular seasonal movements have on demand.

(It also seems worth noting that the in-season price differential between Grey Lynn Countdown and the Fruit World across the road from it can easily reach 10 times the level of GST. People have far more to gain from shopping wisely than from being relieved of GST.)

The relative simplicity of the policy also means that it's arbitrary. Frozen green peas have at least the nutritional value of fresh peas – and are more affordable at any time of the year for those on limited budgets – but will continue to attract GST. The universality of GST is meant to be its key feature, the thing that broadens the tax base. The world won't end if the principle is diluted, but it shouldn't be idly dismissed either.

So it sounds like this whole idea of veges being too expensive is just a load of bullshit. If people actually desired to eat fruit and veges they could. Question: does the Otara flea markets have fruit and vege stalls?

This nonsense about 'making fruit and veg more accessible' is just an empty catchphrase. It's plenty accessible. The fact that a bucket of reconstituted giblets from KFC is relatively cheaper than fruit and veges grown in mother earth's own soil doesn't mean shit except that chicken processing plants can't charge much for the leftovers.

There is also to be counted the opportunity cost of the $250 million to $500 million (depending on who you believe) you won't have to spend any more. Might there have been more effective things to do with the money?

Hmm...

fixed_truth, surely you can see this idea for what it is: desperation. It's a policy that Labour itself has rubbished and does not believe in. It's a pretty clear sign that they are so desperate that they will say and do anything at the moment to lift their polling. I know you'd have a hard time accepting that though. Labour are the tellers of truth and National are the liars who don't care about the people. But try to look past the end of your nose.

[xor]

Originally Posted by CCS

So it sounds like this whole idea of veges being too expensive is just a load of bullshit. If people actually desired to eat fruit and veges they could. Question: does the Otara flea markets have fruit and vege stalls?

Hell yeah son. All them lil azn fullas pack the truck from Pukekohe to sell their vege's at Mangere and Otara markets and it's hell cheap. 10kg sack of Agria potatoes for $4.
There's a few places out souf where wifey and I go over summer to buy big beefsteak tomatoes also for about 70c a kg. It's run operated and run by the IHC society. The workers look after the plants and you just have to pick them from the vine.

There isn't any excuse to say 'pies are cheeper than carrots bru' in South AK.

[CCS]

There you have it. Veges are cheap and they're accessible. Problem solved.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by CCS

fixed_truth, surely you can see this idea for what it is: desperation. It's a policy that Labour itself has rubbished and does not believe in. It's a pretty clear sign that they are so desperate that they will say and do anything at the moment to lift their polling. I know you'd have a hard time accepting that though. Labour are the tellers of truth and National are the liars who don't care about the people. But try to look past the end of your nose.

Stop acting like this is some big socialist experiment that's doomed to fail or something. Published research shows that removing GST on Fruit & Veg will likely increase their consumption by about 11%. Also almost all OCED countries have in place exemptions to GST.

I said in my first post on this topic that I'm not convinced yet, but all I've heard so far from opponents is ideological whining removed from the research & case-studies we have as a practice guide.

[CCS]

So that's all that matters, right? Fuck the practicalities, fuck whether it is even necessary. Take off GST and a WHOLE EXTRA FUCKING 11% - THAT'S ELEVEN PERCENT - WORTH OF FRUIT AND VEGES WILL BE SOLD! Fuck me sideways!

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by CCS

So that's all that matters, right? Fuck the practicalities, fuck whether it is even necessary. Take off GST and a WHOLE EXTRA FUCKING 11% - THAT'S ELEVEN PERCENT - WORTH OF FRUIT AND VEGES WILL BE SOLD! Fuck me sideways!

The sad fact is that a lot of people (for various reasons) don't take responsibility for their eating habits. Unfortunately you and I paying the price for their poor decisions and so it's probably a good idea to do something about this rather than sitting back and saying 'DEATH TO FATTIES'.

A necessary component of doing something about this (ie, making changes in peoples health and lifestyle choices) is increasing their consumption of fruit & veg. 11% isn't something to scoff at, shit my tax cut gain today (after GST increase) is probably less than 1%!

But yeah there very well could be practicality problems if it's not legislated properly. Though we're one of the last developed countries to implement this exemption so it shouldn't be too hard to learn what works & what doesn't from the rest.

[CCS]

See, I thought you weren't yet convinced but it sounds to me like you've made up your mind. You seem to think that an 11% increase is worth the impracticalities of implementation and that any reasons against this are just 'ideological whining'. Great shit

[xor]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

The sad fact is that a lot of people (for various reasons) don't take responsibility for their eating habits. Unfortunately you and I paying the price for their poor decisions and so it's probably a good idea to do something about this rather than sitting back and saying 'DEATH TO FATTIES'.

A necessary component of doing something about this (ie, making changes in peoples health and lifestyle choices) is increasing their consumption of fruit & veg. 11% isn't something to scoff at, shit my tax cut gain today (after GST increase) is probably less than 1%!

But yeah there very well could be practicality problems if it's not legislated properly. Though we're one of the last developed countries to implement this exemption so it shouldn't be too hard to learn what works & what doesn't from the rest.

Who out of that extra 11% will be eating the veges? Paupers or the great citizens of Remmers?

[Juju]

Originally Posted by Rocket

Clearly you don't do your own food shopping, I agree though. Supermarkets are the devil, they'll just soak it up and spit it out. Guess it'll give that Albany pak in save owner some more cash for that water truck he brings in once a week so he can sprinkle his fucking lawn in Omaha every night like I have watched him do over the fence. What a cock.

So the owner of a supermarket that turns over 10's of millions a year isn't allowed to spend $200 a week on his garden that probably doesn't have town water? Irrelevant of how much GP the store makes - do you really think the owner of such a business should stick to a $45k salary just so he can be like you? What a dick.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by CCS

See, I thought you weren't yet convinced but it sounds to me like you've made up your mind. You seem to think that an 11% increase is worth the impracticalities of implementation and that any reasons against this are just 'ideological whining'. Great shit

Well all I'm hearing is that the Govt. couldn't possibly draft a workable law with the obscure terms 'fresh fruit & veg' and without overwhelming compliance costs. I'm not buying it. A variable GST software upgrade is not a extra fixed expense.

But don't worry, Labour aren't getting into power for at least another 4-years so it's not going to happen unless there there is a strong majority of public opinion for it (then National would be claiming as their idea).

[CCS]

Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN: I am aware of many countries that have appallingly inefficient GST systems where they exempt various articles, where they have differential rates, and where one has to differentiate between food taken away from a place and food consumed within a place. Thank goodness we have not followed those very bad policies. I am certainly aware in New Zealand of GST being levied on top of other taxes. Every time the member fills up his petrol tank he is doing precisely that.

Gordon Copeland: Can he confirm that during the last decade the then Government had an opportunity to revisit the question of GST on rates, but decided to retain the sttus quo, and can he con)firm that the Minister who made that decision was the Rt Hon Winston Peters when he was Treasurer in 1997?

Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN: I will take the member’s word for that and congratulate the right honourable gentleman on his wise decision.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Will the Minister confirm that when I left the office of Treasurer—and a very sad day it was for this country—I instructed Treasury to continue its research on the core element of rates on which one could properly say that it is a tax on a tax, and not all rates in the way that the loose United Party is looking at this issue?

Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN: I thank the member for that advice, but that rather reduces my congrattions to him, because that would muddy up the GST system very substantially.

What's changed between then and now? Aside from desperation that is.

[fixed_truth]

Is that a rhetorical question or what?
That was 6-years ago when Cullen was still around, GST was only 12.5% then, also he wasn't talking in context of removing GST on just fruit & veg. Plus since then there's been research indicating it's a good idea.

Maybe Cullen still thinks it's a bad idea, but is it relevant? Maybe we should ask Don Brash?

[Rocket]

Originally Posted by Juju

So the owner of a supermarket that turns over 10's of millions a year isn't allowed to spend $200 a week on his garden that probably doesn't have town water? Irrelevant of how much GP the store makes - do you really think the owner of such a business should stick to a $45k salary just so he can be like you? What a dick.

$200 a week? More like $2000 a week buddy. Do the math. then go figure next time you complain about that $5.50 avocado your MRS told you to buy then go multiple that purchase by 18909 avocadoes over your lifetime and maybe your Childs and your grand Childs avocadoes purchasing lifetime, you can rest assured you paid for his rose's water life line on the beach front for one year. But since you love the cock, I'd guess you'd say that's ok.

laaaawwwwll.

[xor]

^^Someone should really buy the vege's that are in season shouldn't they?

[Juju]

Originally Posted by Rocket

$200 a week? More like $2000 a week buddy. Do the math. then go figure next time you complain about that $5.50 avocado your MRS told you to buy then go multiple that purchase by 18909 avocadoes over your lifetime and maybe your Childs and your grand Childs avocadoes purchasing lifetime, you can rest assured you paid for his rose's water life line on the beach front for one year. But since you love the cock, I'd guess you'd say that's ok.

laaaawwwwll.

$250 will get you 4000 litres. You're saying he goes through 32000 litres a week? Considering most trucks only carry 12,000 litres, that's 3 truck trips. Do the math.


And the last avo's I bought were from Shelly beach, a bag of like 10 for $5.

[Rocket]

i cant find a quote for cost of water delivery in that area but basic stats are 1000 litres per hour for sprinkling garden.

http://www.rainwaterstoragetank.com.au/faq

multiply that for a multi million dollar beach front home, certainly not your average gardens based on soil on sand. times that by few hours every day. On top of probably and already over used cycle, boat washing, kids, showers usual summer holiday activity use of water. and you'll get of an idea of the amount of water he uses, and yes its absurd, the reason I brought it to light in the first place.

stop being a keyboard warrior trying to prove everyone wrong, maybe you just cannot imagine. im sure your mother told you to take a 2 minutes shower at the holiday bach running on a 100 litre rain fed water tank.

[madmaxii]

Aha Rocket

Pot



Black

[TD]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Is that a rhetorical question or what?
That was 6-years ago when Cullen was still around, GST was only 12.5% then, also he wasn't talking in context of removing GST on just fruit & veg. Plus since then there's been research indicating it's a good idea.

Maybe Cullen still thinks it's a bad idea, but is it relevant? Maybe we should ask Don Brash?

Other things that have changed in the latest 6 years: Labour has gone from a multi-term government to a struggling opposition party.

If you like Labour's other policies then that's cool, but going on about a possible 11% (OMG!!!!!11111onelol) increase in fruit like its the best thing ever makes you look like an idiot (ad hominem exaggeration... meh it's Friday).

It is another dumb populist opposition policy. It sounds great on TV - I mean fresh fruit and vegetables for christs sake!!! - but isn't worth introducing complexity to our simplest tax.

[Lightspeed]

Yeah, I think as a stand-alone policy, it isn't worth squat.

[Juju]

Originally Posted by Rocket

i cant find a quote for cost of water delivery in that area but basic stats are 1000 litres per hour for sprinkling garden.

http://www.rainwaterstoragetank.com.au/faq

multiply that for a multi million dollar beach front home, certainly not your average gardens based on soil on sand. times that by few hours every day. On top of probably and already over used cycle, boat washing, kids, showers usual summer holiday activity use of water. and you'll get of an idea of the amount of water he uses, and yes its absurd, the reason I brought it to light in the first place.

stop being a keyboard warrior trying to prove everyone wrong, maybe you just cannot imagine. im sure your mother told you to take a 2 minutes shower at the holiday bach running on a 100 litre rain fed water tank.

Not trying to prove anyone wrong - I'm just showing that you are a tall-poppy dipshit. You lambaste him that he has a multi million dollar home - yet he is your direct neighbour? You exaggerate his water consumption by 3 to hopelessly try and backup your argument that someone who has placed himself in a position of wealth by owning a supermarket that is constantly rated the cheapest amongst it's peers an asshole? At least he keeps the money in the country.
I'm still waiting on an answer to my question about if you think he should be bought down a more normal income, btw.

So the guy uses a lot of water - we have lots of it and he is paying the going market rate for this privilege - what's the problem?

[Rocket]

umm are u bat shit crazy? we were talking about greed by super markets and them dialing up prices 3 weeks after tax cut on veges to soak the profit..

Now can you fuck off and die?

[leadinjector]

Originally Posted by Rocket

Clearly you don't do your own food shopping, I.

clearly you like to talk about shit that you actually have no idea about.

eating healthy is cheaper than eating shit. this isn't even an arguement, it's a fact. food shopping is only expensive if you are one of the many idiots packing their trolley with premium brand processed shit. the basic stuff- fruit, veges, meats, dairy, bread, can be easily and cheaply found if you spend a bit of time. meat would be the most expensive on that list by a longshot (which is fucking retarded in this country but go figure) but sticking to specials and so on helps negate that. my average with clients so far when it comes to cutting their food bill each week is somewhere between 25-30% (i actually havent bothered recording results for that for the last year but i doubt it would have changed much) simply by following some very basic rules and patterns on a shopping trip.

As far as the idea of getting rid of GST on frsh produce, yeah its retarded for a bunch of reasons that have been done in other countries, labour really needs some new material.

[Lightspeed]

Just as an aside I've come to assume that specials are the price food can afford to be sold at and the regular price is the owners of supermarkets wanting to get rich. Like most other people.

[Ab]

As stated in a previous comment or link that I CBF citing, the difference between "fruit and veg with GST" and "fruit and veg without GST" is nothing compared to the difference between "fruit and veg at the big-name supermarket" and "fruit and veg at a market or greengrocers".

You get fucked on every item in a supermarket, it's a laziness tax.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by TD

If you like Labour's other policies then that's cool, but going on about a possible 11% (OMG!!!!!11111onelol) increase in fruit like its the best thing ever makes you look like an idiot (ad hominem exaggeration... meh it's Friday).

It's a positive move towards improving health and reduce inequalities. New Zealands leading authorities in Health agree, so layman can eatadiccup.

Originally Posted by TD

It is another dumb populist opposition policy. It sounds great on TV - I mean fresh fruit and vegetables for christs sake!!! - but isn't worth introducing complexity to our simplest tax.

What's complex about it? Again this is the first component of the reform needed to change peoples eating habits for the good of our heath system.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Ab

You get fucked on every item in a supermarket, it's a laziness tax.

That's true (for people in cities anyway) - though tax payers are the ones paying for this laziness down the line.

[crocos]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

That's true (for people in cities anyway) - though tax payers are the ones paying for this laziness down the line.

That makes no sense in the context of the post you replied to.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by crocos

That makes no sense in the context of the post you replied to.

I think that you'll find it's you who can't make sense of it.

Ab's point was that fruit & veg are cheaper at the greengrocers and the extra money you pay at the supermarket for not being bothered to shop around - is like a 'laziness tax'.
My point is that these lazy people will be getting less fruit & veg for their money and so will be more likely to be less healthy and thus need more health care in the future.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/...41102472586299

[madmaxii]

Rocket - I thought people were mean calling you dumb.

I've changed my mind.

Have a happy day

[The Edge]

I knew that ages ago

Referring to 2degrees extending their coverage:

http://www.nzgames.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=27


Rocket giving his all-knowing feedback on Woosh broadband (it was clearly stated at the start of the thread that the OP was seeking feedback on their wired service):

http://www.nzgames.com/forums/showpo...16&postcount=4

I could go on, but I won't