National Thus Far

[fixed_truth]

I'm not sure undemocratic is the right word. A majority is a majority. Iirc National ignored recommendations to tweak Mmp & reduce the 5% threshold. Had there done so there may have been some smaller parties to give them a majority.

[DrTiTus]

Arrow's Impossibility Theorem basically states no method of voting can ever be fair/ideal when there are three or more candidates/options.

Tyranny of the majority means that even if you can establish a majority, there is every chance that the minority group can be oppressed/ignored.

Representative democracy means it doesn't even matter who you vote for, because they are going to do what they want while they are in power anyway.

Low levels of education and voter engagement, combined with propaganda/biased media/reporting means direct democracy is not necessarily a better option.

In short: social choice/collective decision making is hard, and you can't please everyone. Humans' inability to co-operate is arguably the biggest problem we have as a species.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

An important lesson here is not to get stuck on the cost of running the public sector, but rather let's look at the cost of NOT investing resources here.

Again, you seem to have become such a Bill English fan now he's gone.

[Ab]

There's only one National policy that put it in Opposition this term: the policy of saying "lol fuck no" when Winston Peters demanded to be made Deputy Prime Minister. Glad Bill stuck to his guns on that one.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Again, you seem to have become such a Bill English fan now he's gone.

Are you telling us that Bill had all these bright ideas but was unable to stand up to his party? Or that his voters weren't in favour of these ideas so he had to ignore them?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

National MPs: Time to cash in all those favours!

Cha-ching!

Jonathan Coleman, was brazenly unapologetic about shifting straight from his health portfolio into working for the private health group, Acurity. He explained he had received a lucrative approach from a private provider in the industry sector he has been overseeing as a Cabinet Minister

Meanwhile.

"There simply are no more savings that can be made, there are no more reductions in spending that can be made, without a reduction in servicing.

Part of the dilemma that DHBs have is they're not allowed to say that, he said.

"What happened over the last government's term was that the instructions from central government became more and more explicit, more and more pointed.

"If you are appointed you are appointed at the minister's grace and favour ... if you don't like it and you can't do it then you need to move on."

"You have to make it all sound as though 'we're becoming more efficient constantly, and all of these changes are for the good of the community'."

[Lightspeed]

Where was Bill English while our hospitals were rotting, Ab?

[Lightspeed]

Anyone think our rotting hospitals is John Key's biggest failure in government? What about CYF failing? Or maybe the collapse of our mental health system? Problems with the Christchurch city rebuild? Not being able to hold anyone accountable for Pike River?

I wonder what John Key thinks his biggest failure is?

[xor]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Anyone think our rotting hospitals is John Key's biggest failure in government? What about CYF failing? Or maybe the collapse of our mental health system? Problems with the Christchurch city rebuild? Not being able to hold anyone accountable for Pike River?

I wonder what John Key thinks his biggest failure is?

His son

[StN]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

I wonder what John Key thinks his biggest failure is?

The flag?

[blynk]

Lol.
Of course hes not going to mention anything else, because then that would be admitting they weren't as good as they want to believe.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Anyone think our rotting hospitals is John Key's biggest failure in government? What about CYF failing? Or maybe the collapse of our mental health system? Problems with the Christchurch city rebuild? Not being able to hold anyone accountable for Pike River?

I wonder what John Key thinks his biggest failure is?

The executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, Ian Powell, says eight years of under-funding of health by the former government is to blame.

"I think that's ultimately where the bullet has to be directed at: under-funding and poor leadership government," he said.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nation...r-dhb-blowouts

Meanwhile, family lawyer Liz Lewes, who had been practising family law for 20 years, said the court was "in crisis". "It's very clear that the changes that were made in 2014 are not working... It's just a real mess," she said.

"The current crisis in the Family Court is just causing so much harm for so many families."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...n-family-court

What's really crazy is that while they were ideologically under-funding services into the ground they had lined up income tax cuts! The former opposition were right, English's surpluses really were smoke and mirrors.

[Ab]

(Labour Health Minister) Mr Clark said he's made clear to DHB chairs his expectation that they are careful stewards of health funding and must take care to contain costs given current constraints.

He reiterated government commitment to well-funded public health service but said it's not possible to achieve everything in its first budget.

inspirational

[Lightspeed]

Credit where credit is due:

Mapping Gigabit: Where in the World We’ve Seen Gigabit-speed Results

New Zealand has ten times as many gigabit speed tests as Australia. No other country in Australasia showed gigabit tests during the period we studied.

[MadMax]

"FUCKING LAG"
"^ HAHA SPOT THE PLAYER FROM AUSSIE"

I take great pleasure in being that guy.

[Lightspeed]

Pacific aid boost 'shows the lie' in govt's social deficit claims

Disingenuous cunts.

[fixed_truth]

It's not as though National Party ministers and MPI hadn't been warned, in a 2015 rebuke of MPI by the auditor-general: MPI staff were generally poorly trained and had the wrong tools. Even the radios were outdated. Systems were broken.

But it was MPI's readiness for a devastating outbreak of foot and mouth that could devastate the economy that drew the most criticism from a clearly frustrated and concerned auditor-general.

MPI had no plan for a foot and mouth outbreak and didn't know how to distribute the vaccines, or dispose of tens of thousands of dead animals.

It's incredible, really, especially in a country that relies on us getting this right.

Small incremental cuts kept occurring, strategic advice was rare; good people matter, but good experienced people had walked. A focus on science became an unrelenting push for profit.

Primary Industries Minister Nathan Guy muttered something about how continuing to improve biosecurity was his top priority, and he was going to carefully consider the report's findings.

He also said the Government then was conscious of how important it was to protect the border, and he believed a large amount of work had gone into planning for foot and mouth disease.

Blah blah, whatever.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/polit...i-in-deep-coma

[Lightspeed]

Paula Bennett: HNZ too cautious on meth testing

"I've always had concerns... I just didn't think that the 0.5 [microgram limit] sounded right," she said.

"I questioned [the Health Ministry] in particular who had set that standard, questioned Housing NZ numerous times, got the Standards Authority involved."

Despite her concerns, Ms Bennett said she could not refute the evidence she was given or stand in the way of Housing New Zealand to impose a different set of standards.

"In those early days ... I got advice that there was potential danger, to particularly children who might be prone to asthma or skin infections, I was told that," she said.

"[i] was horrified that people might be smoking P in houses, I'm not going to shy away from that.

"Then I started seeing reports and I remember one in particular from an expert - he said, 'You can just about get more P residue off a $5 note than you could have at some of these houses with 0.5 micrograms' and so that raised alarm bells for me," she said.

"But ... then who am I to be standing in and saying at what level I felt that [the limit] should be?

I think this is to do with the experts John Key has shopped around for. They got their information from those who understood government policy and made sure their opinions matched.

But I suppose this is a case where we shouldn't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

[CCS]

You assume any other minister could have done any better.

[fixed_truth]

Labour Ministers don't have a history of demonizing people on benefits for political gain. The P-smoking scum narrative works for National.

[CCS]

You really think the P contamination thing was demonising people on benefits for political gain?

[fixed_truth]

I'm saying that National Ministers would be less likely to really get involved with what was happening ie like how Bennett was shrugging of conflicting resports. Part of this is because she doesn't really give a shit - see govt. 2008-2016

[CCS]

I think you're blinded by your ideology. I don't think either a National or Labour minister would've handled it any better or any differently. I don't think Bennett was shrugging off conflicting reports. When she said she was concerned, that doesn't sound like she was shrugging it off. What do you do when you have conflicting advice and you're not an expert on the subject matter?

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by CCS

You really think the P contamination thing was demonising people on benefits for political gain?

That does suit the sensibilities of many of National's supporters. It fits with National's pattern of bullying behaviour. Of seeking experts that give them the answers they want.

The alternative is that National was concerned with the health of its tenants, but they weren't effectively responding to much more robust evidence that the state of NZ rentals are the source of ill health to many NZers.

Again, National could be just stupid. But I think more likely they're politically astute.

You have to ignore a lot to hold your view CCS.

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by CCS

What do you do when you have conflicting advice and you're not an expert on the subject matter?

Ooh, ooh, I know this one!

"Whatever the party tells you"

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

You have to ignore a lot to hold your view CCS.

My view being that a minister from either party would have done a poor job? Mate, you're deluded.

[Lightspeed]

You're ignoring that National revealed their disdain for expert opinion. Or how somehow that has no bearing when National demonstrably did not know how to make use of expertise.

Go on though, tell me how I'm deluded, call me names. Demonstrate the extent of your insight.

[Lightspeed]

National apologises for getting bad advice

I wonder what other bad advice they got while in government? I've repeatedly pointed to another instance where they got bad advice with the expected outcome. CYF failed, was that due to bad advice? How about the advice they got to hand over various contracts held by established services like the Problem Gambling Foundation? Perhaps the advice they got telling them NZ has a rock star economy was bad too? What about the state of housing, it took a long time for them to concede there is a crisis, was that due to bad advice? Fish & Game complained about bullying when they tried to give National advice, have others who depend on the government for funding or their jobs been bullied to give the advice National wants to hear?

Or do we accept that poor ole National are completely dependant on their advisers, with no way distinguish between good advice and bad? They only did as any would have done in their position, it's just the luck of the draw whose advice you listen to?

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

You're ignoring that National revealed their disdain for expert opinion.

Yeah, Labour has never done that.

[Lightspeed]

Oh yeah? Show us then. Lets see how comparable your examples are, what went wrong because of Labour choosing the advice that suited them. What about the Greens, how do they rate?

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Oh yeah? Show us then.

Labour ignores NZTA advice

Labour ignores Treasury advice

Labour ignores MBIE advice

Shane Jones pretends he never saw MfE advice

Labour/Greens ignore advice from MBIE, putting ideology before official advice.

Now, before you try to distort my words - as you usually do - I'm not saying that National has never ignored advice. The point I've been making - and you've been ignoring - is that all politicians are guilty of the same thing.

[Lightspeed]

You're still ignoring the point I'm making. National doesn't ignore simply ignore advice, they seek out advice that suits their political aims. John Key explained this to us when he compares academics to lawyers. And there have been plenty of reports of bullying where dissenting voices have spoken out. National has a disdain for expert opinion.We are seeing the results. We have for a long time, but it's just the poors bearing the brunt, so whatevs.

I'm guessing you can't see the difference in the kind of advice the current government isn't taking and the advice the previous government ignored.

[Ab]

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/05...st-government/

[Lightspeed]

The consequence of Key's approach to finding lawyers who provide the opinion you want:

Solo mum's loans were not income - High Court ruling

MSD claimed it overpaid her to that amount while she was earning a benefit between 2005 and 2010 because she borrowed from her mother, a finance company and the bank to stay afloat.

But in a High Court appeal released today, Justice Paul Davison ruled MSD was wrong to classify those sources of money as income.

[Lightspeed]

And the ongoing fallout of National's social policies, writing off mental health services as hobby horses and passionate. As well as the pressures a lot of NZers find themselves unable to cope with, despite our apparently amazing economy.

Police witness spike in suicide related call-outs

The number of suicide attempt and threat related calls to police have jumped by more than 50 percent in the past five years.

[[LvN]N3misiS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

The consequence of Key's approach to finding lawyers who provide the opinion you want:

Solo mum's loans were not income - High Court ruling

MSD loan case's Ms F no poster girl for poverty

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases...=797.299519826

[fixed_truth]

I see that Bridges is being seriously fucked over, by someone.
https://stuff.co.nz/national/politic...upied-for-days

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

I see that Bridges is being seriously fucked over, by someone.
https://stuff.co.nz/national/politic...upied-for-days

out of the loop on this one, what's happened?

[DrTiTus]

Originally Posted by Article

To recap: Someone leaked the information that Bridges' travel expenses for the March quarter were $113,973 - which as the leader of the party accusing the Government of waste seemed excessive.

[fixed_truth]

Someone leaked that in 3 months he had spent over $100,000 on limos & hotels. He blames Labour for the leek then it's revealed that only National Mps were emailed the data. Media going hard that he's using hard working kiwis money to live it up.