National Thus Far

[blynk]

Originally Posted by pxpx

LOL! Creepy as!

So weird. i wonder how old the waitress is.
Younger = creepier
Older = weirder.

Oh dirty old Uncle Key

[Lightspeed]

When NZ does eventually turn on JK, it's going to be over something as completely arbitrary as this. It won't be another minister forced to step down or anything like that.

[StN]

My little ponytail.

Bronagh Key

Yeah.

He's a trail blazer for the broneys.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

When NZ does eventually turn on JK, it's going to be over something as completely arbitrary as this. It won't be another minister forced to step down or anything like that.

Obviously being on the other side of the ditch I have no sense for how this is playing on the ground. That said I don't think anyone's going to give a shit about this. In a couple of weeks it'll be "hey, remember that thing with JK and the waitress?" "nope."

Edit - I see that this is already becoming "Rachel Glucina and the Herald and the waitress and the right-wing media conspiracy and DIRTY POLITICS!!!1" over at the Daily Blog, which is perfect for Key.

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/04/23...irty-politics/

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by Ab

Obviously being on the other side of the ditch I have no sense for how this is playing on the ground. That said I don't think anyone's going to give a shit about this. In a couple of weeks it'll be "hey, remember that thing with JK and the waitress?" "nope."

I might pull the hair of one of the girls at the local cafe I'm friendly with, a true-blue neighbourhood, see what happens. Probably will be taken as support for JK.

[Ab]

I don't know what "hair pulling" entails in this context. Was it a UFC style takedown where he pulled her to the floor and choked her out? Was it a "let me flick that off your shoulder, it looks better like this" ewwww moment? Fuck knows. All I know is that whatever happened this waitress is about to get chewed up and spat out if she hasn't been already. And not by the National Party.

[pxpx]

She needs to get someone who knows what they are doing in her corner, otherwise you're dead right.

Bomber Bradbury is not someone who knows what he's doing.

[Lightspeed]

Well this is the crux of the issue. Powerful guy coming to your cafe regular, gets up to some less than appropriate behaviour, what recourse is there available to the person on the receiving end that doesn't result in being chewed up and spat out?

[Ab]

Originally Posted by pxpx

She needs to get someone who knows what they are doing in her corner, otherwise you're dead right.

Bomber Bradbury is not someone who knows what he's doing.

He's milking it for traffic to his blog, that's all. He doesn't give a shit about what happened other than as it adds value to his "brand".

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Well this is the crux of the issue. Powerful guy coming to your cafe regular, gets up to some less than appropriate behaviour, what recourse is there available to the person on the receiving end that doesn't result in being chewed up and spat out?

Hard to say, I'm not a young female waitress. I react to being offended by another male like a male, that is to say I quickly consider whether or not it's worthwhile punching the cunt in the face.

While male conflict generally involves confrontation, female conflict generally takes the form of saying things to other people, which at least in that sense seems to be what has happened. It's just that the people to whom she has spoken have their own agendas and her experience is now a tool to achieve political ends. Once that tool has been expended it will be discarded.

[Lightspeed]

I don't think those type of generalities matter. It could be a male duty manager JK made a pet name for that made the manager uncomfortable. The situation would be the same: a person in a position of vulnerability is now in the difficult position of trying to maintain their self-respect without facing the potential of being chewed up and spat out by a powerful person and the institutions that support that power.

What does NZ culture favour and value? The vulnerable or the powerful? Historically I think you'll find both kinds of behaviour. By where does the tendency lie? Well that's really up to us and how we respond to these kinds of situations.

[Heyzoos]

Shit getting real yo.

[pxpx]

ha look at her facebook groups

[pxpx]

Originally Posted by Heyzoos

Shit getting real yo.

Not really.

"The complaint was filed this morning by private prosecutor Graham McCready."

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

Obviously being on the other side of the ditch I have no sense for how this is playing on the ground. That said I don't think anyone's going to give a shit about this. In a couple of weeks it'll be "hey, remember that thing with JK and the waitress?" "nope."

I think you're right. Unsurprisingly, how it's playing out on the ground is that most people seem to be waiting until someone tells them what to think.

It's clear to me that this guy is a complete creep and deserves a good kicking for this. Hopefully, that becomes the consensus view.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by pxpx

ha look at her facebook groups

Oh dear I guess she fabricated the whole thing.

[blynk]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

When NZ does eventually turn on JK, it's going to be over something as completely arbitrary as this. It won't be another minister forced to step down or anything like that.

I agree. Most people dont care about the politics side of things.
It will be something non-political that will make people question JK.

[StN]

Originally Posted by Ab

Obviously being on the other side of the ditch I have no sense for how this is playing on the ground. That said I don't think anyone's going to give a shit about this. In a couple of weeks it'll be "hey, remember that thing with JK and the waitress?" "nope

Hmmm - both news bulletins ran with it last night - each with a different bit of stock footage bit involving him tugging on the hair of a pre-teen girl - and I've seen a third example this morning.

That's creepy.

And it's come out that the only reason he apologised with the two bottle of JK Pinot was because the wife told him to pull his head in. After 7 months of hassling the waitress.

It may be a tipping point.

[Ab]

Originally Posted by Heyzoos

Shit getting real yo.

That's McCready's first private prosecution against Key this year, isn't it? It's already April, dude's slowing down.

Again, this has now reached the point where everyone with a political objective is going to be jumping on the bandwagon, which makes it much easier to just go "meh" and forget all about it.

[StN]

OMG - here's another one:



Oh wait, that's Roger Sutton...

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Heyzoos

Oh dear I guess she fabricated the whole thing.

Nobody is saying it was fabricated. Key has admitted to it. The point is that although the waitress is saying this is not politically motivated, it clearly is. She didn't tell her employers. She didn't go to traditional news media, she went to the fucking Daily Blog. Her facebook groups suggest that she hates John Key no matter what and her employers say she has "strong political points of view". So it shouldn't be surprising that she's making a song and dance about it and saying she's more hurt by it than she really was. She has strong motivation to dramatise the story.

Here's the thing: when Key gave her the wine and apologised, however weak his apology may have been, it was the end of it at that point. He wasn't going to touch her hair after that. The waitress could have left it there and gone on with life but for some reason she feels compelled to shout out that New Zealand should know his actions aren't befitting a Prime Minister. Oh, but it's not political. No.

That's not to say Key wasn't wrong. He's been caught being weird and seems quite insincere about it. I mean "that’s a very tantalising ponytail" - wtf? I don't think there's anything sinister in it. He thinks he's being hilarious and is too dense to realise he's not. But it's a stretch to say that he was deliberately bullying the waitress.

He should have just done a public mea culpa - "Sorry, I misread the situation. Of course I shouldn't have tugged her ponytail." Maybe he could have even apologised for being a man.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by CCS

The point is that although the waitress is saying this is not politically motivated, it clearly is.

This is not accurate. The situation is clearly bigger than the woman involved, but she didn't bring this on herself and few are in a position to judge her motivations.

The apology might have been the tipping point that assured her that the behaviour was in fact as inappropriate as she thought it was. Prior to that she may have found herself confused and distressed about how to deal with the situation.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

When NZ does eventually turn on JK, it's going to be over something as completely arbitrary as this. It won't be another minister forced to step down or anything like that.

No. It will take a lot of small things like this for the public to slowly lose confidence in him. It will require death by a thousand cuts until people are sick of hearing about how he's spending more time being goofy than he is governing the country.

WhaleOil has already turned on Key. Things like the Mike Sabin affair and the flag debate have got Cam Slater deridng Key. Throw in the TPPA and if people start to get the sense he's causing more harm than good, and his popularity will slide. He won't resign over one minor scandal or failure. His polling will simply decline if his enemies can inflict 996 further cuts on him. But it relies on looking worse, at that point, than a Labour Green coalition - which is a pretty unpleasant prospect for many people.

Of course, if National is smart they'll just replace Key if his ratings slide too far. If his ratings slide too far.

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

This is not accurate. The situation is clearly bigger than the woman involved, but she didn't bring this on herself and few are in a position to judge her motivations.

The apology might have been the tipping point that assured her that the behaviour was in fact as inappropriate as she thought it was. Prior to that she may have found herself confused and distressed about how to deal with the situation.

All of that horseshit of course. It should be clear to anyone but a one-eyed lefty that it's politically motivated.

[Ab]

Y'all are forgetting that people are fucking stupid. Any second now we're going to have Gallipalooza and 24/7 coverage of John Key looking leaderlike while thanking OUR BOYS who WENT TO DEFEND FREEDOM during their PEACEKEEPING MISSION in THE STREETS OF GALLIPOLI.

And in any case, it's less than a year after an election. The next one is forever away, so nothing that happens now matters at all in a political sense. The government has the votes to pass legislation, and it will do so, and this is all just theatre.

[blynk]

I wonder if the National are quickly scrambling to put some other bills through that people dont like.
Everyone is focussed on the hair pulling that they wont care about "affect the whole nation" things

[CCS]

Originally Posted by Ab

Y'all are forgetting that people are fucking stupid.

I'm not forgetting that at all. That's why I said it would have to be a death of a thousand cuts and not just 4

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by CCS

All of that horseshit of course. It should be clear to anyone but a one-eyed lefty that it's politically motivated.

I guess that's why the little girl didn't complain to a leftists blog. She's obviously not politically motivated.

[CCS]

Did she complain to anyone?

[Heyzoos]

Who knows. Unless it was politically motivated, how would we know

[CCS]

So you don't have any point to make? Okay. Cool.

[Lightspeed]

Originally Posted by CCS

All of that horseshit of course. It should be clear to anyone but a one-eyed lefty that it's politically motivated.

Hahah, can't handle the idea that someone might be upset at our hero John Key with legitimate concern?

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by CCS

So you don't have any point to make? Okay. Cool.

Sorry, what was your point again? I lost track.

My point was that John Key is a creep.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

Y'all are forgetting that people are fucking stupid.

Hadn't forgotten. Don't forget lazy and entitled.

[Lightspeed]

Don't forget overwhelmed by day-to-day demands and pressures.

Originally Posted by Ab

Can you all please use the official hashtag #ponytailgateghazi

#tailgate is where it's at.

[Heyzoos]

Gotta LOL at The Herald's complete meltdown today.

[crocos]

It's now looking more like an issue between the reporter, the owners and the waitress. Is JK even in the story any more?

Teflon John, escape artist extraordinaire!

[Lightspeed]

Nah mate, we got Winny on the case!

Peters calls for police investigation over ponytail pulling

[Ab]

Originally Posted by crocos

It's now looking more like an issue between the reporter, the owners and the waitress. Is JK even in the story any more?

Teflon John, escape artist extraordinaire!

Who?

Here's what's going to happen to JK's approval ratings as a result of this: nothing. Until they forget about all this, which will be soon, the people who like him will perhaps like him a little less, or feel a bit weird about liking him, but they certainly won't stop liking him. The people who don't like him will not like him even harder. And when it becomes evident that his approval ratings haven't changed, those people will not like him so much harder that many of them will be at risk of spontaneous human combustion, and we'll all be hearing about landlines and mobiles and biased polling and Baby Boomers and DIRTY POLITICS!!1 and Crosby Textor and fuck kill me now.

[Heyzoos]

Originally Posted by Ab

The people who don't like him will not like him even harder.

I fit into this bracket but won't be doing any of the other stuff you mention. Sounds like hard work.