Labour Thus Far.... - Page 10

Lightspeed · 15th May 2018, 13:49

It's called making the point that Duncan Garner is bullshit.

CCS · 15th May 2018, 14:26

This is a shameful dodge by Labour. The point of the government building houses should be to increase the housing supply. All they're doing is paying for houses that were going to be built and sold anyway. GG Labour.

CCS · 15th May 2018, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

It's called making the point that Duncan Garner is bullshit.

That's nice. But you asked for actual sources and Ab gave them to you. Maybe you think Garner is bullshit, but the links seem to back up what he is commenting on.

Lightspeed · 15th May 2018, 15:19

Is this point-out-the-obvious day?

If that's the case... You're a partisan hack CCS, your indifference to anything but attacking your opponent is long demonstrated.

CCS · 16th May 2018, 07:42

Projecting again.

fixed_truth · 16th May 2018, 08:17

Will be interesting to see tomorrow what's actually is going on.

Though critiques are obviously politically aligned because these people moaning that Labour are not spending enough would be moaning if they were spending more and/or increasing taxes to do so.

Fact is National have seriously underfunded in the areas of infrastructure, health, housing and education. On top of this they've systematically tried to hide it and so now Labour is in a hard place because although they independently costed their policies and committed to no new taxes - they've been dumped with covering the costs of what the last Govt. dodged. Turns out that Joyces $11.7b "fiscal hole" was more like a warning that there's a sneaky shit sandwich on the way.

Juju · 16th May 2018, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Is this point-out-the-obvious day?

If that's the case... You're a partisan hack CCS, your indifference to anything but attacking your opponent is long demonstrated.

How about we hear your opinion on Labour's about face on their 100k kiwibuild promise?

Lightspeed · 16th May 2018, 13:37

It's the kind of bullshit Labour had to cook up if they wanted a shot at getting into power. It's also the consequence of coming up with policy without the resources and insight that is available to those in government. That's even before considering National's efforts to obfuscate the actual state of... well, many aspects of the economy and life in New Zealand. It's also a consequence of the effort to stay in power: voting New Zealanders are hung on the idea of surplus.

Perhaps Juju you can share your opinion as to why National denied or downplayed the problems with housing in New Zealand for so long?

Lightspeed · 16th May 2018, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Though critiques are obviously politically aligned because these people moaning that Labour are not spending enough would be moaning if they were spending more and/or increasing taxes to do so.

"Too much analysis!"
"Not enough analysis!"

It's so absurd.

Ab · 16th May 2018, 14:16

Cancellation of something as significant as fossil-fuel exploration seems to be the sort of thing that should have received cost-benefit analysis before announcement, but hey maybe that's just me.

Lightspeed · 16th May 2018, 16:56

Yeah, but "too much analysis!" It's what you get when opposition is based on catchy phrases and clever framing rather than authentic challenges.

Although given the uncertainties and risks involved, any decisions are likely to be based on ideology (e.g. "no benefits are worth the risk of oil spills") as much as cost/benefit, surely?

Lightspeed · 17th May 2018, 20:34

Student Loan EFTS Cap Not Included in Budget 2018

This sucks. Another consequence of this nonsense of committing to a surplus.

Ab · 17th May 2018, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

any decisions are likely to be based on ideology (e.g. "no benefits are worth the risk of oil spills") as much as cost/benefit, surely?

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politi...d-gas-ban.html

Lightspeed · 17th May 2018, 23:47

Are you pointing out your agreement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

given the uncertainties and risks involved

Quote:

Dr Woods' office told Newshub officials did not think it was appropriate to use the Treasury tool in this case as there were too many unknowns about how much gas and oil was actually out there.

fixed_truth · 18th May 2018, 10:28

Politically it's a smart budget. I'd love Labour to go all out tax & spend but because centre voters hold a lot of misconceptions about personal responsibility & scarcity (for example) it would risk having do nothing National back in 2020. So it has a good increase in key areas with indications there's more to come. At the same time it's got a healthy surplus to keep up the scripted rainy day line. gg Robertson but I'm a bit concerned that Hosking thinks it's a decent budget.

CCS · 18th May 2018, 11:35

Budget 2018: Lack of Whānau Ora funding a 'kick in the guts', says Māori Party

Quote:

The Māori Party says it is a "kick in the guts" that Whānau Ora has been overlooked in today's Budget.

"That goes against the promise that Labour made to voters last year to put $20 million into Whānau Ora over four years," Māori Party president Che Wilson said.

"That's an issue of integrity. That's a policy that Labour itself put up – they are the majority party in Government so there's really no excuse to renege. It's also a bit of a kick in the guts," he said.

Well done, Labour. You really screwed over Maori. Everyone who voted Labour over Maori Party has sold out their people.

fixed_truth · 18th May 2018, 12:17

Heh the MP talking about selling out their own people. Selling out to National really worked out well for them.

Great to see a sudden onset of giving a shit about the vulnerable from National voters though!

Ab · 18th May 2018, 13:06

Nice to see Labour hiking tax on cigarettes, that really sticks it to rich people

pxpx · 18th May 2018, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Nice to see Labour hiking tax on cigarettes, that really sticks it to rich people

Seems a bit of a stupid move considering more and more people are vaping.

CCS · 18th May 2018, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

Heh the MP talking about selling out their own people. Selling out to National really worked out well for them.

They didn't sell out to National. They got more done for Maori than they would have with Labour. Also, it's not about working out well for the Maori Party - it's about working out well for the Maori people. Maori Party working with National achieved things they would not have otherwise. But people are too stupid to understand how coalitions work and think that the Maori Party being in a coalition with National somehow means they have sold out to National. So instead they voted for Labour, who ended up with all the Maori seats and who are now shitting on Maori.

Quote:

Great to see a sudden onset of giving a shit about the vulnerable from National voters though!

Who might you be referring to?

CCS · 18th May 2018, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

Nice to see Labour hiking tax on cigarettes, that really sticks it to rich people

National hiked the tax on cigarettes and it created a black market. Now dairy owners get bashed for their smokes. Now Labour is doing the same. Hey, nice job, Labour!

DrTiTus · 18th May 2018, 14:34

For just $3 ($4.50 including postage) you can get 1000s of seeds and grow your own tobacco.

Or you can be a fucking idiot, raised by other fucking idiots, and have no idea about planning for the future, and just rob some cunt.

Hey, nice job, fucking idiots!

fixed_truth · 18th May 2018, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

They didn't sell out to National. They got more done for Maori than they would have with Labour. Also, it's not about working out well for the Maori Party - it's about working out well for the Maori people. Maori Party working with National achieved things they would not have otherwise. But people are too stupid to understand how coalitions work and think that the Maori Party being in a coalition with National somehow means they have sold out to National. So instead they voted for Labour, who ended up with all the Maori seats and who are now shitting on Maori.

Stupid Maoris should have been happy with their crumbs off the table huh?

CCS · 18th May 2018, 16:13

Not my words.

Lightspeed · 18th May 2018, 16:34

If Maori did so well under the National/MP coalition, where is the Maori Party now?

CCS · 18th May 2018, 17:02

See my post above. Read the bit about the difference between Maori Party and Maori people. Also read fixed_truth's moronic inability to grasp what I'm saying. Then look at yourself in the mirror.

blynk · 18th May 2018, 17:19

So the Maori people were so happy with what they got from the Maori Party and National that they decided they didn't have to vote for the Maori Party or their candidates.

I see how that works.

Lightspeed · 18th May 2018, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

Maori Party working with National achieved things they would not have otherwise.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that billion dollar housing project for Maori.

CCS · 19th May 2018, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

So the Maori people were so happy with what they got from the Maori Party and National that they decided they didn't have to vote for the Maori Party or their candidates.

I see how that works.

That's entirely the opposite of what I said. Are you fucking stupid?

CCS · 19th May 2018, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Oh yeah, I forgot about that billion dollar housing project for Maori.

The Maori Party voted in favour of that?

Lightspeed · 19th May 2018, 03:46

I don't see your point. We can only speculate as to why the Maori Party lost its support, but I think it's reasonable to assume that whatever you think the Maori Party achieved in its partnership with National, it was not what those supporters hoped for.

A number of people seem to be struggling to understand you CCS. Given the responses maybe you'd like to make another attempt at communicating your meaning?

fixed_truth · 19th May 2018, 08:19

I think what CCS is clumsily trying to say is that the MP getting some policy gains for Maori is better than nothing and that Maori voters who don’t agree with this assertion are stupid.

This is wrong for a few reasons. It doesn’t properly consider WHY Maori voted for the MP and whether they were getting what they wanted. Many voters wanted a strong voice of change and not a party aligned with a Govt. whose policies & hands-off approach hit Maori the hardest.
It also doesn’t consider the long-game. I think that by not being what its voters wanted the MP lost a real opportunity to reach out to the huge number of disenfranchised non-voters. Also, that they would have still been a strong independent political voice for Maori and in a great position to get some real change as part of a centre-left Govt.

Ab · 22nd May 2018, 12:57

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-orange-roughy

Cyberbob · 22nd May 2018, 16:53

World's fastest caver goes to..

fixed_truth · 22nd May 2018, 17:46

I wonder if it was a Winston call. Greens won't like it.

Lightspeed · 22nd May 2018, 18:42

Well, it's what we voted for I suppose.

Cyberbob · 23rd May 2018, 10:22

It's not nice being a minority is it. I'm not used to it.

Ab · 23rd May 2018, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS

This is a shameful dodge by Labour. The point of the government building houses should be to increase the housing supply. All they're doing is paying for houses that were going to be built and sold anyway. GG Labour.

It gets better. Herald:

Quote:

People wanting to buy one of the Government’s affordably priced homes will not be income-tested.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12055234

So if I’m a baby boomer property investor buying houses with the equity I have in other houses, and I then rent them out and negatively gear them for tax breaks, my investment properties count towards Labour’s Kiwibuild target? Wtf?

Jodi · 23rd May 2018, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab

and negatively gear them for tax breaks,

PSA: Labour are stopping you offsetting your income from losses from your look though company starting next tax year I believe.

CCS · 23rd May 2018, 17:32

The houses will be restricted to first time buyers. Which is not to say that there aren't ways around that, such as shill buyers.

15th May 2018, 14:26	#362
CCS Stunt Pants	This is a shameful dodge by Labour. The point of the government building houses should be to increase the housing supply. All they're doing is paying for houses that were going to be built and sold anyway. GG Labour. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

16th May 2018, 07:42	#365
CCS Stunt Pants	Projecting again. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

18th May 2018, 14:34	#382
DrTiTus HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE	For just $3 ($4.50 including postage) you can get 1000s of seeds and grow your own tobacco. Or you can be a fucking idiot, raised by other fucking idiots, and have no idea about planning for the future, and just rob some cunt. Hey, nice job, fucking idiots! __________________ Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand...

18th May 2018, 16:13	#384
CCS Stunt Pants	Not my words. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

18th May 2018, 17:02	#386
CCS Stunt Pants	See my post above. Read the bit about the difference between Maori Party and Maori people. Also read fixed_truth's moronic inability to grasp what I'm saying. Then look at yourself in the mirror. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?

15th May 2018, 13:49	#361
Lightspeed	It's called making the point that Duncan Garner is bullshit. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

15th May 2018, 15:19	#364
Lightspeed	Is this point-out-the-obvious day? If that's the case... You're a partisan hack CCS, your indifference to anything but attacking your opponent is long demonstrated. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

16th May 2018, 08:17	#366
fixed_truth	Will be interesting to see tomorrow what's actually is going on. Though critiques are obviously politically aligned because these people moaning that Labour are not spending enough would be moaning if they were spending more and/or increasing taxes to do so. Fact is National have seriously underfunded in the areas of infrastructure, health, housing and education. On top of this they've systematically tried to hide it and so now Labour is in a hard place because although they independently costed their policies and committed to no new taxes - they've been dumped with covering the costs of what the last Govt. dodged. Turns out that Joyces $11.7b "fiscal hole" was more like a warning that there's a sneaky shit sandwich on the way. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

16th May 2018, 13:37	#368
Lightspeed	It's the kind of bullshit Labour had to cook up if they wanted a shot at getting into power. It's also the consequence of coming up with policy without the resources and insight that is available to those in government. That's even before considering National's efforts to obfuscate the actual state of... well, many aspects of the economy and life in New Zealand. It's also a consequence of the effort to stay in power: voting New Zealanders are hung on the idea of surplus. Perhaps Juju you can share your opinion as to why National denied or downplayed the problems with housing in New Zealand for so long? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

16th May 2018, 14:16	#370
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Cancellation of something as significant as fossil-fuel exploration seems to be the sort of thing that should have received cost-benefit analysis before announcement, but hey maybe that's just me.

16th May 2018, 16:56	#371
Lightspeed	Yeah, but "too much analysis!" It's what you get when opposition is based on catchy phrases and clever framing rather than authentic challenges. Although given the uncertainties and risks involved, any decisions are likely to be based on ideology (e.g. "no benefits are worth the risk of oil spills") as much as cost/benefit, surely? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

17th May 2018, 20:34	#372
Lightspeed	Student Loan EFTS Cap Not Included in Budget 2018 This sucks. Another consequence of this nonsense of committing to a surplus. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

18th May 2018, 10:28	#375
fixed_truth	Politically it's a smart budget. I'd love Labour to go all out tax & spend but because centre voters hold a lot of misconceptions about personal responsibility & scarcity (for example) it would risk having do nothing National back in 2020. So it has a good increase in key areas with indications there's more to come. At the same time it's got a healthy surplus to keep up the scripted rainy day line. gg Robertson but I'm a bit concerned that Hosking thinks it's a decent budget. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

18th May 2018, 12:17	#377
fixed_truth	Heh the MP talking about selling out their own people. Selling out to National really worked out well for them. Great to see a sudden onset of giving a shit about the vulnerable from National voters though! __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

18th May 2018, 13:06	#378
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Nice to see Labour hiking tax on cigarettes, that really sticks it to rich people

18th May 2018, 16:34	#385
Lightspeed	If Maori did so well under the National/MP coalition, where is the Maori Party now? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

18th May 2018, 17:19	#387
blynk	So the Maori people were so happy with what they got from the Maori Party and National that they decided they didn't have to vote for the Maori Party or their candidates. I see how that works.

19th May 2018, 03:46	#391
Lightspeed	I don't see your point. We can only speculate as to why the Maori Party lost its support, but I think it's reasonable to assume that whatever you think the Maori Party achieved in its partnership with National, it was not what those supporters hoped for. A number of people seem to be struggling to understand you CCS. Given the responses maybe you'd like to make another attempt at communicating your meaning? __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

19th May 2018, 08:19	#392
fixed_truth	I think what CCS is clumsily trying to say is that the MP getting some policy gains for Maori is better than nothing and that Maori voters who don’t agree with this assertion are stupid. This is wrong for a few reasons. It doesn’t properly consider WHY Maori voted for the MP and whether they were getting what they wanted. Many voters wanted a strong voice of change and not a party aligned with a Govt. whose policies & hands-off approach hit Maori the hardest. It also doesn’t consider the long-game. I think that by not being what its voters wanted the MP lost a real opportunity to reach out to the huge number of disenfranchised non-voters. Also, that they would have still been a strong independent political voice for Maori and in a great position to get some real change as part of a centre-left Govt. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

22nd May 2018, 12:57	#393
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-orange-roughy

22nd May 2018, 16:53	#394
Cyberbob	World's fastest caver goes to.. __________________ ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ

22nd May 2018, 17:46	#395
fixed_truth	I wonder if it was a Winston call. Greens won't like it. __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

22nd May 2018, 18:42	#396
Lightspeed	Well, it's what we voted for I suppose. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

23rd May 2018, 10:22	#397
Cyberbob	It's not nice being a minority is it. I'm not used to it. __________________ ɹǝʌo sᴉ ǝɯɐƃ ʎɥʇ

23rd May 2018, 17:32	#400
CCS Stunt Pants	The houses will be restricted to first time buyers. Which is not to say that there aren't ways around that, such as shill buyers. __________________ I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner?