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24th January 2014, 02:02 | #1 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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John Key announces teaching reforms
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=11190838
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24th January 2014, 07:36 | #2 |
I have detailed files
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Well, that's the teachers sorted, now if he gets the freezing workers and wharfies onside, there will be no stopping him!
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24th January 2014, 09:52 | #3 | ||
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Pixie
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24th January 2014, 10:28 | #4 |
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The Executive Principle role seems to make a lot of sense to me, if their portfolio has adequate variance in decile ratings I would hope they stand to benefit quite a bit through better governance.
Edit: I wonder if they're the equivalent of the Superintendent role found in America? Last edited by GM : 24th January 2014 at 10:31. |
24th January 2014, 10:39 | #5 | |
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24th January 2014, 11:00 | #6 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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No, the exact opposite. Labour has always been steadfastly opposed to the notion of paying high-performing teachers more than shitty teachers, because unions. (Paying good teachers more than shitty teachers is a step on a slippery slope to firing shitty teachers, and we can't have that, comrade!)
But this is a loltastic move by Key - no doubt Cunliffe's gearing up for a "neoliberal agenda, thousand years of darkness, dogs and cats living together" rant about National on Monday, and 3 days in advance Key announces a huge spendup on improving childhood education. Key's taken a nice big symbolic step to the left, and Labour can either agree with him and congratulate him (sif) or step further left to try and get some distance. Which will have Labour and the Greens clashing on super-left policies while National camps the middle. |
24th January 2014, 11:11 | #7 |
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That's a specific method of investment. You're feeling awesome because National is investing in a way you can feel good about - it gives those who have plenty more.
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24th January 2014, 11:15 | #8 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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24th January 2014, 11:16 | #9 | |
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Interesting listening on the topic http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/pr...rch-and-policy From that interview - outside of school issues count for about 60% of variation in school/student performance and in school issues (such as teachers and principles) only account for about 20%. Pixie
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24th January 2014, 11:36 | #10 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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24th January 2014, 11:49 | #11 | |
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Fact is with National governments funding to education, health and particularly mental health contract, during Labour governments this funding expands. This is what I care about. If National wants to fund these things (and given the volume of science pointing to the considerable returns when we do, they have to), they're forced to paint any funding increase as some grand scheme that makes it looks like the money is going to the "deserving" and that no skiving buggers are going to get that money. Cause things like feeding hungry kids looks like we're letting parents off the hook, and it's more important not to let people off the hook than to feed hungry kids. The volume of hungry kids in NZ is evidence of this, especially comparative to our wealth.
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24th January 2014, 11:50 | #12 | |
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Pixie
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Civilised is as civilised does and civilised people walk among us. |
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24th January 2014, 12:04 | #13 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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24th January 2014, 12:23 | #14 |
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It really is. Have you heard of the Green Revolution?
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24th January 2014, 14:16 | #15 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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I fail at the communications, I wasn't being sarcastic - I know how cheap it is to feed a kid. It really is cheap.
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24th January 2014, 14:21 | #16 |
I have detailed files
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You can skip the oats and go straight to the ivy...
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24th January 2014, 14:24 | #17 | |
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24th January 2014, 15:33 | #18 | |
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Hopefully Labour comes up with something a more extensive.
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24th January 2014, 17:32 | #19 | |
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Pixie
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24th January 2014, 20:34 | #20 |
Love, Actuary
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Well "expert" is essential. Second is "excellent". Ideally both but if you have to choose only one then the former will do.
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24th January 2014, 20:37 | #21 |
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I think the latter can exist without the former, but the if the latter is not true then the former cannot be.
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24th January 2014, 20:42 | #22 |
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'Excellent' teachers and 'expert' teachers come from industry, they've been through the mill, they know whats up. It's hard to get them to switch, when pay is less, risk is high and the KPIs are unknown.
No teacher that has gone from school, to uni, to school is ever going to be excellent.... imo. |
24th January 2014, 21:04 | #23 |
Love, Actuary
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labour could still win this - instead of promising to open up an insurance company they need to promise a nationwide organic supermarket chain.
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24th January 2014, 21:43 | #24 |
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Well my argument (which I'm not going to go in depth into tonight because I'm damn exhausted) would be that a field such as teaching may have specialists, may even have excellent practitioners but does not contain experts. Not all fields have experts.
Pixie
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24th January 2014, 21:51 | #25 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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So now JK is dangling a big carrot. |
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24th January 2014, 22:58 | #26 |
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There's no doubt we undervalue our teachers. Wouldn't need no damned unions if we did value our teachers and always did.
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25th January 2014, 14:18 | #27 | |
Love, Actuary
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In all real-world scenarios I expect you'll find that a measure of knowledge or skill can always be defined and because scores can always be ranked it follows that there are always experts. |
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28th January 2014, 09:19 | #28 | |
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How much does an Avg . teacher with say, 5 years experiance get paid? 50,000? What are their qualifications? Do they need a formal Degree? In? Are there different pay brackets for primary / high school? years of training involved? What are the difficulties of the job? Stress? Work load? Environment? Genuine question(s). It's always seemed an 'easy' job to me? Any teachers around that can answer objectively? Last edited by aR Que : 28th January 2014 at 09:21. |
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28th January 2014, 11:46 | #29 | |
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PS: I am biased on this topic, since Dad has been teaching for fifty-something years. He has been a Principle (at several schools in South Africa), HoD, counsellor, sports coach, debate team coach, after hours school care facilitator .. you name it, he's done it. I started earning more than Dad when I was about 26 after 6 years in IT. $72,645 is the top of the scale for secondary school teachers. Last edited by Savage : 28th January 2014 at 11:48. |
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28th January 2014, 12:06 | #30 | |
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Actually, when I went to Tiki High things were (surprisingly on reflection) pretty sweet there, it was when I moved to Aorere College in South Auckland that I saw how shit it could be.
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28th January 2014, 13:55 | #31 | |
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28th January 2014, 14:34 | #32 | |
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28th January 2014, 17:13 | #33 | |
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Maybe this is the difference between Jo Blogs teacher, and the excellent/expert teachers discussed earlier in the thread. Yes, the "management units" don't sound that hard to achieve, I believe they're worth $900 and $3000 per annum each, with the bigger ones being for senior teachers with a management component in their role. From what I recall, there is a limit to how many a teacher can gain (additional units above the limit do not receive extra payment). Would love it if an actual NZG member was a teacher and could clarify a lot of this for us. Last edited by Savage : 28th January 2014 at 17:17. |
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28th January 2014, 17:19 | #34 |
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*edit
"worth between $900 and $3000 per annum each" |
28th January 2014, 17:21 | #35 | |
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I'm not sure of either, it would be interesting to know. Certainly we can't pretend as it is that NZ's public education system isn't one of the best in the world.
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28th January 2014, 18:34 | #36 |
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I dated a teacher for a bit and also provide IT support at a couple of primary schools. I can assure you most of the cars are in the carpark before 8 and still there around 4pm. Also lots of work goes in at home after hours marking work or preparing for the next days/weeks lessons.
Its not just a 9-3pm job. |
28th January 2014, 18:35 | #37 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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sweet holidays bro
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28th January 2014, 19:05 | #38 |
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My brother is a secondary school teacher and OTOMH teachers starting rates are comparable to other public sector professions that require a specialist degree.
But yeah it would be awesome to be a teacher during the holidays and not have to use most of your annual leave to look after the kids and/or have to pay for care arrangements.
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Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong. |
28th January 2014, 20:32 | #39 |
Love, Actuary
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Teachers are effectively on a $100k industry equivalent salary. They notionally salary sacrifice to get down to 71k in return for an extra eight weeks of leave. Or if you like $100k x 40 / 48 less something to allow for staff are paid less than they are worth (so that there's a point left to employing them) i.e. the value of the extra eight weeks they don't work is more than they are paid and so something extra has to be deducted beyond the simple ratio adjustment.
Most people who earn $100k equivalent salaries work more than a 9 to 5 job. Teachers have nothing to complain about - they are well paid compared to most people. |
28th January 2014, 22:36 | #40 | |
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