Should Henry stay or should henry go?

Maulmonk · 17th October 2007, 03:14

As per title.

I personally think he should stay, hes done only good things for the all blacks and whoopee something bad happened this time: doesn't mean shit as far as i'm concerned. Stuff like this can happen. I'm sick of the coaches always taking the blame for our bad world cup performances.

Heresy · 17th October 2007, 07:48

I've always liked him, and think he should stay. The ABs have a great record under him.

blynk · 17th October 2007, 08:06

I think he should have the option of reapplying, and the NZRFU seriously looking at the application.

Although, he would need to change a couple of his policies. I don't mind rotation, but he has to admit what his first XV is, and play them more often. And maybe not rest the players in the Super 14.

I think people understand it wasn't really his fault, and he has done some good things for the AB's.

fixed_truth · 17th October 2007, 09:21

he should be asked back - but yeah, he needs to tweak some shit

mr selfdestruct · 17th October 2007, 09:50

He won't change. He'll make all kinds of promises to get the position back but it'll be just like the World Cup. "Rotation is over" Buuuuuuulllshit!! He can't help himself. He will rotate players and dilute the All Black jersey as always. He won't rest players for the Super 14 because even if he was allowed (which no ab coach will ever be allowed to again anyway), there is no point because there is no World Cup to prepare for.

Personally I think it's Wayne Smiths fault, he's the backs coach. There has been no continuity in the backs for a long time and he should have insisted on certain combinations over the last year, it was his responsibility. I think Hansen did well with the forwards and insisted on a mostly unchanged Tight 5 which seemed to work.

pig · 17th October 2007, 11:30

Yeah i would like him to stay but they need to settle on their backs combinations & not do so much rotation.
Who the hell is our next second 5/8 now that i think about it ?

BtP · 17th October 2007, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig

Yeah i would like him to stay but they need to settle on their backs combinations & not do so much rotation.
Who the hell is our next second 5/8 now that i think about it ?

Steven Brett

chiQ · 17th October 2007, 13:59

I reckon he should stay. If we keep ousting coaching and management staff at every set-back we'll never get anywhere. I think some continuity would be a good thing. I also agree that less mixing and matching in the main squad would be a good thing. Sure it's good to have a large group of experienced players, but again, we need more continuity.

slippers · 17th October 2007, 14:19

He should stay

xor · 17th October 2007, 15:20

I think he should go. He played with an injured Carter and played a rusty centre.

Bad decisions were made leading up to the loss IMHO

Ab · 17th October 2007, 15:32

Sign him up until after the 2011 WC.

I'm with SD - it's the backs that look like crap, so Smith has some explaining to do.

Griven · 17th October 2007, 16:46

4 years is enough, he was hired to do a job and failed and not only failed but returned the worst World Cup campaign ever. Clearly his systems werent good enough every possible resource was extended to him and his staff. New blood and ideas are needed imo, yes he was successful with the world cup the only blight on his record but considering his ideas and systems were specifically for obtaining the World Cup.

Murphy · 17th October 2007, 17:08

So we start from scratch every 4 years in a vain hope that we might get it right once? Isn't that a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Apart from one game at the world cup we have won everything important leading up to it. The NZRFU and Henry must be doing something right?
Maybe the NZRFU should show some actual innovation and leadership by retaining the services of Graham Henry and break the cycle of reinventing the wheel every four years.

How long was Clive Woodward coach of England before they won the world cup?

Ard Righ · 17th October 2007, 20:08

I think they need to keep Henry and his assistants, but the NZRFU needs to sit down and put in writing:

a) cut the rotation policy
b) develop specialists for each position
c) give the players game time, not playing in the sun time

pk_wasp · 17th October 2007, 22:20

Who coached the 2003 AB's backs when we piled on 50 pts vs Aus and SA?

2003 AB backs and 2005/2006 AB forwards would have been awesome combo in 2007

.

Maulmonk · 18th October 2007, 04:50

I disagree somehwhat with the rotation policy but you must say: if not for the rotation policy we would never have the depth at that we had.

The only area we didn't have that much depth at the WC was locks and that was because of freak injuries to all our locks. (wasn't it like 3 all missing the WC and still we were able to bring good quality locks - if this happened in any other regime we wouldve been in much worse position)

We also probaly did not have the most depth in the 1st five position but when you have such a world class player like Carter its hard for any 'backup' to get much game time.

slippers · 18th October 2007, 09:31

We DID have depth at 1st 5 though.

We had Carter, Evans and then McAlister.......that IS depth. No one could have predicted that we'd lose Carter and Evans in the same game.

TnT · 18th October 2007, 15:37

He should stay.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after every failed world cup we've changed coaches right?
'91 - Alex Wyllie
'95 -Laurie Mains
'99 - John Hart
'03 - John Mitchell
'07 - Graham Henry
Total world cup wins = 0

How is that panning out for us?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results. In this instance the same thing would be to put a new coach in for the next world cup.

The ABs under Henry have an 87% success record, that's the best success rate in over 25 years, and is better than Brian Lochores rate.

Savage · 18th October 2007, 15:48

A Politically Incorrect Story

In these dark days of rugby despair, does anyone remember 1997?

In 1997 the All Black captain was Sean Fitzpatrick, the team was pretty much the same for every match, and it had names like Christian, Zinzan, Josh and Jonah in it.

In 1997 the All Blacks were undefeated. That’s right, undefeated.

They played the Aussies, the Springboks, the English, the Welsh, the Irish and a few more and never lost a match.

Then something changed in New Zealand.

On the 6th of December 1997 Jenny Shipley ousted Jim Bolger and became our first woman Prime Minister.

The next day the All Blacks managed a lucky draw with England.

The next year the previously undefeated All Blacks lost every Tri Nations match. That’s right, every match.

New Zealand has had a woman Prime Minister ever since.

And ever since, when it counted, the rugby has been pretty much downhill as well.

The mentors and role models in our primary schools are now ninety percent women.

Our children are taught that all accidents are preventable, all risk should be avoided, losing is OK and aggression is a crime.

Now some people might think there was some connection between the feminisation of our society and the decline in our rugby.

I couldn’t possibly comment on that.

All I know for sure is Fitzy never cried (this line accompanied by pic of McCaw face in hands at press conference)

He never had to.

Heresy · 18th October 2007, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnT

He should stay.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after every failed world cup we've changed coaches right?
'91 - Alex Wyllie
'95 -Laurie Mains
'99 - John Hart
'03 - John Mitchell
'07 - Graham Henry
Total world cup wins = 0

How is that panning out for us?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results. In this instance the same thing would be to put a new coach in for the next world cup.

The ABs under Henry have an 87% success record, that's the best success rate in over 25 years, and is better than Brian Lochores rate.

Someone buy this man a beer.

Know me. · 18th October 2007, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnT

He should stay.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after every failed world cup we've changed coaches right?
'91 - Alex Wyllie
'95 -Laurie Mains
'99 - John Hart
'03 - John Mitchell
'07 - Graham Henry
Total world cup wins = 0

How is that panning out for us?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results. In this instance the same thing would be to put a new coach in for the next world cup.

The ABs under Henry have an 87% success record, that's the best success rate in over 25 years, and is better than Brian Lochores rate.

yeah I think you are spot on there TNT

17th October 2007, 09:50	#5
mr selfdestruct The Deliverator	He won't change. He'll make all kinds of promises to get the position back but it'll be just like the World Cup. "Rotation is over" Buuuuuuulllshit!! He can't help himself. He will rotate players and dilute the All Black jersey as always. He won't rest players for the Super 14 because even if he was allowed (which no ab coach will ever be allowed to again anyway), there is no point because there is no World Cup to prepare for. Personally I think it's Wayne Smiths fault, he's the backs coach. There has been no continuity in the backs for a long time and he should have insisted on certain combinations over the last year, it was his responsibility. I think Hansen did well with the forwards and insisted on a mostly unchanged Tight 5 which seemed to work. __________________ My real signature is not nearly as legible as this one.

17th October 2007, 13:59	#8
chiQ Frag-muff	I reckon he should stay. If we keep ousting coaching and management staff at every set-back we'll never get anywhere. I think some continuity would be a good thing. I also agree that less mixing and matching in the main squad would be a good thing. Sure it's good to have a large group of experienced players, but again, we need more continuity. __________________ Gaming/phone/computing platforms are not indicative of groinal/physical/cognitive impressiveness.

17th October 2007, 03:14	#1
Maulmonk	Should Henry stay or should henry go? As per title. I personally think he should stay, hes done only good things for the all blacks and whoopee something bad happened this time: doesn't mean shit as far as i'm concerned. Stuff like this can happen. I'm sick of the coaches always taking the blame for our bad world cup performances.

17th October 2007, 07:48	#2
Heresy yawn.	I've always liked him, and think he should stay. The ABs have a great record under him.

17th October 2007, 08:06	#3
blynk	I think he should have the option of reapplying, and the NZRFU seriously looking at the application. Although, he would need to change a couple of his policies. I don't mind rotation, but he has to admit what his first XV is, and play them more often. And maybe not rest the players in the Super 14. I think people understand it wasn't really his fault, and he has done some good things for the AB's. Last edited by blynk : 17th October 2007 at 08:07.

17th October 2007, 09:21	#4
fixed_truth	he should be asked back - but yeah, he needs to tweak some shit

17th October 2007, 11:30	#6
pig	Yeah i would like him to stay but they need to settle on their backs combinations & not do so much rotation. Who the hell is our next second 5/8 now that i think about it ?

17th October 2007, 15:20	#10
xor	I think he should go. He played with an injured Carter and played a rusty centre. Bad decisions were made leading up to the loss IMHO

17th October 2007, 15:32	#11
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Sign him up until after the 2011 WC. I'm with SD - it's the backs that look like crap, so Smith has some explaining to do.

17th October 2007, 16:46	#12
Griven	4 years is enough, he was hired to do a job and failed and not only failed but returned the worst World Cup campaign ever. Clearly his systems werent good enough every possible resource was extended to him and his staff. New blood and ideas are needed imo, yes he was successful with the world cup the only blight on his record but considering his ideas and systems were specifically for obtaining the World Cup.

17th October 2007, 17:08	#13
Murphy	So we start from scratch every 4 years in a vain hope that we might get it right once? Isn't that a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Apart from one game at the world cup we have won everything important leading up to it. The NZRFU and Henry must be doing something right? Maybe the NZRFU should show some actual innovation and leadership by retaining the services of Graham Henry and break the cycle of reinventing the wheel every four years. How long was Clive Woodward coach of England before they won the world cup?

17th October 2007, 20:08	#14
Ard Righ	I think they need to keep Henry and his assistants, but the NZRFU needs to sit down and put in writing: a) cut the rotation policy b) develop specialists for each position c) give the players game time, not playing in the sun time

17th October 2007, 22:20	#15
pk_wasp	Who coached the 2003 AB's backs when we piled on 50 pts vs Aus and SA? 2003 AB backs and 2005/2006 AB forwards would have been awesome combo in 2007 .

18th October 2007, 04:50	#16
Maulmonk	I disagree somehwhat with the rotation policy but you must say: if not for the rotation policy we would never have the depth at that we had. The only area we didn't have that much depth at the WC was locks and that was because of freak injuries to all our locks. (wasn't it like 3 all missing the WC and still we were able to bring good quality locks - if this happened in any other regime we wouldve been in much worse position) We also probaly did not have the most depth in the 1st five position but when you have such a world class player like Carter its hard for any 'backup' to get much game time.

18th October 2007, 09:31	#17
slippers	We DID have depth at 1st 5 though. We had Carter, Evans and then McAlister.......that IS depth. No one could have predicted that we'd lose Carter and Evans in the same game.

18th October 2007, 15:37	#18
TnT	He should stay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but after every failed world cup we've changed coaches right? '91 - Alex Wyllie '95 -Laurie Mains '99 - John Hart '03 - John Mitchell '07 - Graham Henry Total world cup wins = 0 How is that panning out for us? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results. In this instance the same thing would be to put a new coach in for the next world cup. The ABs under Henry have an 87% success record, that's the best success rate in over 25 years, and is better than Brian Lochores rate.

18th October 2007, 15:48	#19
Savage	This was emailed round yesterday ... A Politically Incorrect Story In these dark days of rugby despair, does anyone remember 1997? In 1997 the All Black captain was Sean Fitzpatrick, the team was pretty much the same for every match, and it had names like Christian, Zinzan, Josh and Jonah in it. In 1997 the All Blacks were undefeated. That’s right, undefeated. They played the Aussies, the Springboks, the English, the Welsh, the Irish and a few more and never lost a match. Then something changed in New Zealand. On the 6th of December 1997 Jenny Shipley ousted Jim Bolger and became our first woman Prime Minister. The next day the All Blacks managed a lucky draw with England. The next year the previously undefeated All Blacks lost every Tri Nations match. That’s right, every match. New Zealand has had a woman Prime Minister ever since. And ever since, when it counted, the rugby has been pretty much downhill as well. The mentors and role models in our primary schools are now ninety percent women. Our children are taught that all accidents are preventable, all risk should be avoided, losing is OK and aggression is a crime. Now some people might think there was some connection between the feminisation of our society and the decline in our rugby. I couldn’t possibly comment on that. All I know for sure is Fitzy never cried (this line accompanied by pic of McCaw face in hands at press conference) He never had to. Last edited by Savage : 18th October 2007 at 15:49.