World Cup Squad

[Skiltz]

Dan Carter (Canterbury), Jerry Collins (Wellington), Andrew Ellis (Canterbury), Nick Evans (Otago), Carl Hayman (Otago), Andrew Hore (Taranaki), Doug Howlett (Auckland), Chris Jack (Tasman), Byron Kelleher (Waikato), Sione Lauaki (Waikato), Brendon Leonard (Waikato), Luke McAlister (North Harbour), Richie McCaw (Canterbury, Captain), Leon MacDonald (Canterbury), Chris Masoe (Wellington), Aaron Mauger (Canterbury), Keven Mealamu (Auckland), Malili Muliaina (Waikato), Anton Oliver (Otago), Keith Robinson (Waikato), Josevata Rokocoko (Auckland), Sitiveni Sivivatu (Waikato), Conrad Smith (Wellington), Rodney So'oialo (Wellington), Reuben Thorne (Canterbury), Neemia Tialata (Wellington), Isaia Toeava (Auckland), Ali Williams (Auckland), Tony Woodcock (North Harbour).

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4135979a10.html

[pig]

No Rico Gear either - wow. I'm kind of surprised, didn't think Thorne showed much in his last game & even tho Flavell hadn't been great i thought he might get the nod. Very surprised that Weepu isn't there, wonder if he will continue with rugby or have crack at league.

[slippers]

Cowan > Ellis


wtf?

[vorlon]

I wasn't that surprised that Weepu wasn't picked - he hasn't really been in form .

As for Cowon - where is he? I don't like him, but I don't remember his name being mentioned that much during Super 14...

[caffiend]

Roughly grouped field positions:

• Carl Hayman, Neemia Tialata, Tony Woodcock
• Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Anton Oliver
• Chris Jack, Keith Robinson, Reuben Thorne, Ali Williams
• Jerry Collins, Sione Lauaki, Richie McCaw, Chris Masoe, Rodney So'oialo
• Byron Kelleher, Brendon Leonard, Andrew Ellis
• Dan Carter, Nick Evans
• Luke McAlister, Aaron Mauger, Conrad Smith, Isaia Toeava
• Doug Howlett, Josevata Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu
• Leon MacDonald, Malili Muliaina

Fairly solid selection, but is there enough interchangeability in the positions? Strikes me that there could be some big gaps if there are injuries to key players.

[markE]

I can understand the non selection of Weepu as he has been playing shit he really lost it for himself. I think they should of had Nonu in there soley for him to come of the bench he the most devestating runner in NZ rugby IMO.

[Ab]

That's a good team. My eyebrow only gets raised at Ellis over Weepu, and at Lauaki and Smith with such limited game time this year.

I notice that with the exception of Smith -- who is lucky to play in an absolutely critical position -- every one of the players who were disciplined for breaking curfew on Saturday night has been dropped. I guess Henry and Co are only taking to France those players who are serious about being part of the team. And rightly so.

To each of the disciplined players I say: YOU FUCKING RETARD.

[wugambino]

Originally Posted by markE

I can understand the non selection of Weepu as he has been playing shit he really lost it for himself. I think they should of had Nonu in there soley for him to come of the bench he the most devestating runner in NZ rugby IMO.

do a couple of high tackles give away some penalties ...

good squad , im glad they dropped weepu eh he has been playing like crap. Glad to see howlett in there to , good to have a cool experienced head in the team. He's one of those jeff wilson esc guys who everything allways seems to go right for.

[slippers]

Originally Posted by vorlon

I wasn't that surprised that Weepu wasn't picked - he hasn't really been in form .

As for Cowon - where is he? I don't like him, but I don't remember his name being mentioned that much during Super 14...

Thats cos he played for the shitty highlanders.
He actually had a really impressive Super14. Defence being a huge standout. Best defensive 9 in this years super 14 id say~


Ellis...meh

[Sp0nge]

Originally Posted by Ab

I guess Henry and Co are only taking to France those players who are serious about being part of the team. And rightly so.
To each of the disciplined players I say: YOU FUCKING RETARD.

QFT.
these guys are supposed to be professional athletes preparing for a 4 yearly event...Im sure some of them would have been in the team if their mindset was in the right place.
Henry did the right thing: no point taking players who arent taking it seriously enough.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Flavell > Thorne. I don't even know why was ever called up in the first place... and now in the World Cup squad? He's a journeyman at best. Perhaps for off the field leadership or something?

[caffiend]

So what's the story with the 30th position?

I heard that it will be Greg Somerville if passed fit in the next few weeks, otherwise Schwalger? Can anyone confirm with a link?

[Skiltz]

I think thats just what the media has speculated, there is no official word.

[markE]

The more I think about Weepu not making it the more angry I get ! We're fucked IMO if Kelleher goes down. Who would you rather have play against the giants in the SA team Ellis/Leonard V Weepu ?

[Ab]

What are you talking about? Ellis and Leonard have played against the SA forwards all year in the Super 14.

[pig]

Pretty sure the last spot is for Somerville.

[Sp0nge]

Originally Posted by markE

Who would you rather have play against the giants in the SA team...

I'd rather have someone who's head is in the right place, who's taking the WC seriously, who can stick to the plan on and off field, etc

...just look at Gregan...physically he's disadvantaged, he makes plenty of mistakes, he can be bloody slow with getting the ball out, etc...but his commitment is second to none...you need people like that to represent your country at a world cup.

I think thats why Thorne is in the team instead of Flavell as well...
he'll put his guts on the line when it counts.

[Ard Righ]

Originally Posted by Sp0nge

I'd rather have someone who's head is in the right place, who's taking the WC seriously, who can stick to the plan on and off field, etc

Agree.

Weepu should have been concentrating on getting his form back, putting in the effort to show he was committed to staying in the squad.

It's all the more shame on Weepu, after he was given the time off for reconditioning, that he would give away everything to stay out late drinking beers with the boys.

[xor]

My father saw Weepu in a Wellington Hotel last week walking around like he was "hot shit"

Fucking owned now that he isn't in the team!

[Ab]

There have been what -- two times? -- this AB season so far in which players not named in the playing squad have been told to suit up after other players suffered injuries during the pre-game warmup.

I just can't get my head around it. What the fuck where these retards thinking? TWO DAYS AWAY FROM THE NAMING OF THE WORLD CUP SQUAD.

Fuck them. If that's their level of professionalism, we're all better off without them.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

and there is something about cornrows in the All Blacks that just .... isn't right.

[buckies]

Originally Posted by markE

The more I think about Weepu not making it the more angry I get ! We're fucked IMO if Kelleher goes down. Who would you rather have play against the giants in the SA team Ellis/Leonard V Weepu ?

fucked? Have you watched any rugby this year?

Leonard is the form #9 in the world at the moment. I would hardly call him inadequate. Both the last test matches have notably gone up a notch the moment he got on the field. Woodcock's try wouldn't have happened if Leonard hadn't made the crucial intercept.

Kelleher by comparison is crap. He had a WOEFUL game for his last one in NZ on Saturday. For someone who was obviously very passionate about the encounter (crying during the anthem and haka), it was strange to see such a poor performance. His slow delivery got exploited several times, and his predicatable running left us without a halfback on several crucial occasions. Remeber when Dan Carter had to run up to the ruck and clear the ball after Kelleher's cockup? Kellher = too old, too slow, too predicatable.

I just hope that Leonard continues his form during the first three rounds of the npc. I feel a lot more confident in the big games with his speedy delivery, especially when we have such a potent backline and will be playing on dry tracks

[markE]

Originally Posted by buckies

fucked? Have you watched any rugby this year?

I've watched plenty of code this year. I agree Leonard is the form player and deserves his place in the squad. Him and Ellis are still would you not say inexperienced at international level ? I'd just feel a lot more comfortable in the final (if we make it) with Weepu than either of those two players he's a big game player and has proven he is in the past. He's also way more combative than the other two and could hold his own against those massive SA forwards.

[markE]

Originally Posted by Ab

What are you talking about? Ellis and Leonard have played against the SA forwards all year in the Super 14.

Yeah and the NZ teams did so well in the Super 14

[caffiend]

Has Leonard started against anyone for the ABs? Or are we all basing our "he's the best #9 in the world" calls on a total of 40 minutes played over 2 Tri-nations games (one against a substandard SA side)?

[markE]

Originally Posted by caffiend

Has Leonard started against anyone for the ABs? Or are we all basing our "he's the best #9 in the world" calls on a total of 40 minutes played over 2 Tri-nations games (one against a substandard SA side)?

[surreal]

I do understand, for a moment, players thinking this was the best chance to celebrate prior to the world cup.

And I dont have a clue what Ellis has achieved playing for the Junior ABs, but... I really would prefer players who have at least felt playing for the all blacks in tough times - Juniors have never really been tested. (I think?)

[FMXMatt]

Originally Posted by surreal

I do understand, for a moment, players thinking this was the best chance to celebrate prior to the world cup.

And I dont have a clue what Ellis has achieved playing for the Junior ABs, but... I really would prefer players who have at least felt playing for the all blacks in tough times - Juniors have never really been tested. (I think?)

You speak as though Ellis will be playing the big games... remember theres 3 Halfbacks and he will be the 3rd of the 3. In all likelyhood Ellis will get gametime during the smaller matches, I.e Romania, and more than likely as Reserve for Leonard. Any match involving SA, Aussies etc, they'll probably go with Kelleher, with Leonard Reserve.

I like Ellis, he's got the right attitude. Doesn't always get it right but nobody is perfect. The Jnr Allblacks have done wonders for his confidence, and its obviously been noted by the selectors. He looked as surprised as anyone when he found out. He honestly thought that he'd be missing this WC due to being off his game at the end of the Super14.

I say to anyone doubting, give him a chance, you may be surprised

[Ab]

Remember, Ellis was probably the standout half of LAST year's season, only to fuck his knee in the Super 14 semi? final? I forget. And he's kicked ass for the JABs this year, just check out that assraping they gave Australia A at Carisbrook.

[buckies]

Originally Posted by caffiend

Has Leonard started against anyone for the ABs? Or are we all basing our "he's the best #9 in the world" calls on a total of 40 minutes played over 2 Tri-nations games (one against a substandard SA side)?

I said he was the form #9 in the world at the moment, and I stand by that statement.

The main problem here is that people only base their judgements on AB games, but super 14 matters a lot too. Sure, I would be more sceptical if we were bold statements based on NPC form (ala Kahui), but Leonard has represented NZ at a Junior level, didn't put a foot wrong in the super 14, and has played amazing in every test match he has had a hand in.

He's 92 kg too for all the people criticising his size. The only reason he looks so small is because you rationalize it that way when you notice the radical speed difference between Kelleher and him.

[slippers]

Originally Posted by Ab

Remember, Ellis was probably the standout half of LAST year's season, only to fuck his knee in the Super 14 semi? final? I forget. And he's kicked ass for the JABs this year, just check out that assraping they gave Australia A at Carisbrook.

He sucked shit during the NPC though. I didnt think he deserved selection last year.

I will back him now tho.

[caffiend]

Originally Posted by buckies

The main problem here is that people only base their judgements on AB games

I think if you're going to say 'best in the world' then you have to be looking at international tests. Otherwise you might be seeing the guy play very well, but possibly only because of the inferior quality of the opponents.

And Super 14 can't count for much given the team/country ranking in that comp was pretty much SA, NZ then AU teams, and in the Tri-nations it was NZ, AU then SA.

[buckies]

Originally Posted by caffiend

I think if you're going to say 'best in the world' then you have to be looking at international tests. Otherwise you might be seeing the guy play very well, but possibly only because of the inferior quality of the opponents.

And Super 14 can't count for much given the team/country ranking in that comp was pretty much SA, NZ then AU teams, and in the Tri-nations it was NZ, AU then SA.

Grammatical limitations aside...

I never said he was "the best in the world". As I reiterated previously, I do believe Leonard is the form #9 in the world. I believe it's fair to come to these conclusions based on super 14 and the test time he has had for the ABs. In Super 14 you are playing against the world's best on an individual case by case basis. Don't drag this down and tell me that we need to factor in the Northern Hemisphere teams and players, as I think everyone here will be in agreement that it isn't necessary if we are talking about the worlds best rugby players.

[caffiend]

"Form". "Best". I guess I see that there's a difference, but it's a bit tenuous.

Anyways, I never once mentioned Northern Hemisphere rugby as even being vaguely relevant.

I'm far more concerned you seem to be making some kind of negative observation about my grammar. Which I admit isn't exactly perfect for the most part, but hey... fuck it. Right? I spend enough time reviewing legal docs at work to be too fussed about it here (unless it's dumbass spelling mistakes by idiots who I like to hassle).