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1st April 2019, 13:34 | #1 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Labour plans review of hate speech legislation
Surpriiiiiiiiiiise
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chr...sque-shootings Quote:
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1st April 2019, 14:11 | #2 | |
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Maybe the bus driver was offended by the woman's cultural appropriation. Which this time last year was the correct thing to be offended by. Maaan, that bus driver is soooo 2018. |
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1st April 2019, 14:20 | #3 | |
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also,
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This is promising. A discussion is exactly what's needed, so let's watch to see if this can be done the right way. I think Labour is showing good leadership after the tragedy (now is not the time to go full Sam Harris / Maajid Nawaz on Islam, but to show some compassion and solidarity), and I am open to the idea that a modification to "hate speech / free speech" laws will not just be a knee-jerk swing of the pendulum. |
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1st April 2019, 14:48 | #4 |
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Obviously the "sticks & stones" theory is the prevailing wisdom at NZG, so we're always going to struggle with this kind of action.
However despite our robustness, not everyone is so resilient and may be impacted by online speech. Especially if the speech is coming from non-genuine individuals, agencies or organisations able and willing to use psychosocial techniques to stimulate reactions that would have otherwise never occurred. My guess is politics being what it is we'll end up with a "don't say naughty things on the Internet" law rather than a "you must be a real person to throw shade on the Internet" law. Maybe if we're really lucky Labour will botch the law and accidentally make online advertising illegal in NZ. I'd bend over and take almost anything if that happened.
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1st April 2019, 17:36 | #5 | |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
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1st April 2019, 17:44 | #6 |
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Being social IS compulsory for most humans. And social media is now how we do that. To suggest people don't HAVE to engage socially in that manner reduces humans to a set of rational conscious decisions. Which is not what we observe when we study humans. Much of our behaviour is a matter of compulsion that occurs outside of consciousness, the story we construct about our behaviour being secondary.
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1st April 2019, 18:28 | #7 |
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"To suppress free speech is a double wrong. It violates the rights of the hearer as well as those of the speaker." - Frederick Douglass
Hitchens' Dictionary anecdote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHwvT4Xl5Uo Christopher Hitchens on Free Speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2uzEM0ugY Often I feel there is no need for context to link to Hitchens. But these are quite apt for NZ's current situation. It is a road many societies have been down previously. We are compelled to be social, and also compelled to so on social media. And I agree that the addiction to these platforms means most people really don't have a choice in the matter. They are a slave to social media, but they are also high-functioning addicts making up a large chunk of the population being slowly conditioned with dopamine and cortisol. If social media is just algorithms conditioning and amplifying of our base fears (of others, of not fitting in), then surely social media can just as easily condition us to be more resilient to insults, more moderate in our religious doctrine, or less antagonistic against minorities? Would we still have free speech if our psyche is manufactured? This kind of pivot would be a win-win for humanity. Hate speech would be quickly identified, countered, and dispatched. Our addiction also makes us more mentally robust against adversity. However, it would reveal that Facebook and Twitter bestowed these traits to us, and can just as easily take them away. |
1st April 2019, 18:42 | #8 |
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I like the idea, but I think it's a matter of entropy. There are far fewer "wholesome" states than there are "toxic" states in humans. We CAN do as you suggest, but it's not just a matter of doing something different, it's doing something more sophisticated.
We didn't always need sewage systems. A ditch at the back of the village was enough. Sure, people got sick, but people could stay well with care. Moving forward, as people lived in bigger and bigger communities, it became harder and harder to avoid shit. No reasonable amount of care could protect you. The solution was the sewage system, to carry away and render harmless the inevitable toxins we produce. Social media needs a sewage system. Unfortunately it's in the interests of some in power to perpetuate or even worsen the current situation. And they've got an easy hook to stop us from making a change: free speech. Another white American male invention.
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1st April 2019, 18:55 | #9 | |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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1st April 2019, 19:24 | #10 |
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Pretty sure the free speech we all enjoy is the US version.
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1st April 2019, 19:51 | #11 |
A mariachi ogre snorkel
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Yeah but it's of a European Enlightenment flavour. All that rights of the individual stuff in the foundation US documents is straight out of Locke.
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1st April 2019, 21:16 | #12 |
Stunt Pants
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So now we're all anti-white American male inventions?
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I just want to understand this, sir. Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the owner? |
1st April 2019, 23:48 | #13 | |
HENCE WHY FOREVER ALONE
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I have to go out of my way to find things I really disagree with, and I've never had to do anything more than close the tab. I've unfollowed people who turn out to be spewers of bullshit, or just inconsistent in their paranoid rantings. I don't expect them to be banned because *I* disagree with them, just that their audience will organically diminish if they continue being idiots. I think it's better to let the haters hate very openly, so at least they out themselves if they're attention seeking psychopaths, or other people in the online community have a chance to let them know that their view is wacky if they're just ignorant or horrible. (I think I mostly agree with Nich, after actually reading his post)
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Finger rolling rhythm, ride the horse one hand... |
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2nd April 2019, 04:08 | #14 | |
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2nd April 2019, 12:03 | #15 |
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Well yes, and also yes if this stranded woman took Ardern's "they are us" speech too literally. I'm just saying it's possible this woman has never worn a hijab in her life, but looked around and saw that it was the correct thing to do in this time or mourning. The bus driver might think this gesture has a lot of other connotations that the woman appears to be ignoring.
That said, I am proud of what Ardern has done, she has extended an olive branch while almost all other countries (except Canada, but they're a bit politically touched in the head at the moment) are fed up with the chaos Islam brings to their streets. Now, Ardern has shown that we can denounce someone who murders Muslims in broad daylight with zero remorse. Not only that, but the majority of the western world admire her actions. When the next terrorist attack happens and the perpetrators scream "Allāhu akbar", it will be the turn of the Muslim community to stand up and say "These terrorists are not us. They are wrong to kill in the name of Islam." |