Labour advocates one-strike-you're-out crime policy

Ab · 15th October 2010, 15:37

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...vers-cars-Goff

crocos · 15th October 2010, 16:39

Given that there's been several fail-to-stops resulting in death in the media lately, this really doesn't surprise me.

blynk · 15th October 2010, 18:04

I would also add that any person in the car as well could have their license suspended. If they aren't telling the driver to stop, then they are just as much to blame

fixed_truth · 15th October 2010, 18:16

I was hoping for some kind of analogy to Nationals three-strikes policy

cyc · 15th October 2010, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

I would also add that any person in the car as well could have their license suspended. If they aren't telling the driver to stop, then they are just as much to blame

Because people will always stop when people tell them to, eh?

Lightspeed · 15th October 2010, 18:36

It's a bloody complex issue.

MrTTTT · 15th October 2010, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

I would also add that any person in the car as well could have their license suspended. If they aren't telling the driver to stop, then they are just as much to blame

That's retarded.

fidgit · 15th October 2010, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

It's a bloody complex issue.

How do you see this as complex?

Short of someone being on the way somewhere due to an emergency, what else justifies not stopping for the Police? I guess a conspiracy paranoia? If they're "targeting your car" (and I'm not saying they don't do this) then tough shit. If it's 'bad cops' harrasing the public... tough shit. It's not like they're locking you up. They're pulling you over for a chat. The only reason you would fail to stop would be you've got something to hide. (arg I hate that I've just used the 'something to hide' argument - but I really don't think this is on the same scale as internal property surveillance)..

TLDR: complex wat? I need more information.

ipee · 15th October 2010, 23:32

I was more interested in a couple of quotes from Greg O'Conner, Police Association President.

Quote:

There is no evidence that criminals arm themselves in response to police, he said.
''Quite the converse. Criminals knowing that police are armed are less likely to pull a gun than they are in New Zealand where they know that police are unable to respond.''

I'm thinking 29 cops murdered since 1890 hardly justifies arming police.

fidgit · 16th October 2010, 18:09

heh not to mention the common sense argument that criminals are going to be more likely to arm themselves if police do, because, they don't want to hand over the upper hand to the cops.

CCS · 16th October 2010, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidgit

TLDR: complex wat? I need more information.

He's just looking for a way to introduce psychology into the discussion. Most likely the offenders had a traumatic childhood and that's why they're fleeing the police.

Lolspeed is a crackpot. Just ignore him.

cyc · 16th October 2010, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipee

I was more interested in a couple of quotes from Greg O'Conner, Police Association President.

Greg O'Connor is perhaps the most irritating, unintelligent and snarky union idiot I've ever seen. And that's saying something. His sole aim in life appears to be to give police unchecked power and to undermine all the legitimate checks and balances against the police.

blynk · 16th October 2010, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidgit

heh not to mention the common sense argument that criminals are going to be more likely to arm themselves if police do, because, they don't want to hand over the upper hand to the cops.

I disagree with that. Criminals are already armed.
Just look at the armory they find when they do busts.

fidgit · 17th October 2010, 00:31

Fair enough point blynk. How about then, criminals will arm themselves with more powerful weapons or ammunition, such as bullets that can penetrate bullet proof vests.

If we do have to arm our police, then we should make sure the criminals know they're out-gunned. Give the cops grenade launchers. Who's gonna pull a .22 on a cop when they're going to blow you into tiny giblets.

Deadmeat · 17th October 2010, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by blynk

I disagree with that. Criminals are already armed.
Just look at the armory they find when they do busts.

When they do a bust though the police are prepared to meet an armed threat. I would disagree that finding guns in a building means that criminals are actively carrying firearms in their day to day activities (rather than merely having access to them at their house) to an extent that justifies all police carrying firearms. I'm more amenable to police having access to a weapon stored in their car rather than as a 'go to' option on the belt.

chubby · 17th October 2010, 09:41

none of our cops died in gun-fights.
every single one was shot down in a surprise!!! cold blooded manner.

guns in a car(or even on the hip) will make no difference at all.

xor · 17th October 2010, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubby

none of our cops died in gun-fights.
every single one was shot down in a surprise!!! cold blooded manner.

guns in a car(or even on the hip) will make no difference at all.

I think the perception of a criminal would change if they knew cops have pistols on the ready eh.

To quote the great words of Chris Rock: "Don't go to parties with metal detectors, sure it feels safe inside. But what about those niggas waiting outside with guns? They know you ain't got one'

Lightspeed · 17th October 2010, 12:51

The problem is it is very difficult to know precisely how the criminal perception will change.

xor · 17th October 2010, 12:56

I watched a doco on police shootings and it showed NZ cops get owned a lot more than AUS cops. And we don't exactly have crime like AUS has crime.

chubby · 17th October 2010, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

I think the perception of a criminal would change if they knew cops have pistols on the ready eh.

To quote the great words of Chris Rock: "Don't go to parties with metal detectors, sure it feels safe inside. But what about those niggas waiting outside with guns? They know you ain't got one'

not really interested in the perception of the criminals.
police usually die when they're mistaken for other criminals.

i bet 5bucks that police deaths continue as before(or slowly increase), while those of criminal(both deserving or other) and innocent bystander increase.

Ab · 17th October 2010, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by xor

I watched a doco on police shootings and it showed NZ cops get owned a lot more than AUS cops. And we don't exactly have crime like AUS has crime.

ANd just last week an Aussie cop was shot dead in a confrontation with an armed suspect.

Unfortunately ballistics showed that the bullet that killed him came from a police gun.

fixed_truth · 17th October 2010, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadmeat

When they do a bust though the police are prepared to meet an armed threat. I would disagree that finding guns in a building means that criminals are actively carrying firearms in their day to day activities (rather than merely having access to them at their house) to an extent that justifies all police carrying firearms. I'm more amenable to police having access to a weapon stored in their car rather than as a 'go to' option on the belt.

SickBo@Work · 19th October 2010, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubby

not really interested in the perception of the criminals.
police usually die when they're mistaken for other criminals.

And this claim is based on what exactly?

It sounds about as informed and based on reality as the claims that some sort of coldwar style arms race will eventuate between cops and crooks.

chubby · 22nd October 2010, 19:51

well, the lists I've looked at show me to be wrong historically- but less so recently.
interestingly though, most of them die when they fuck it up during car-chases, or are killed during confrontations with registered firearms owners.
comments?

15th October 2010, 15:37	#1
Ab A mariachi ogre snorkel	Labour advocates one-strike-you're-out crime policy http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...vers-cars-Goff

16th October 2010, 18:09	#10
fidgit Always itchy	heh not to mention the common sense argument that criminals are going to be more likely to arm themselves if police do, because, they don't want to hand over the upper hand to the cops. __________________ 4 7 2 3 9 8 5...1 4 2 9 7 8...14 16 22...36°

17th October 2010, 00:31	#14
fidgit Always itchy	Fair enough point blynk. How about then, criminals will arm themselves with more powerful weapons or ammunition, such as bullets that can penetrate bullet proof vests. If we do have to arm our police, then we should make sure the criminals know they're out-gunned. Give the cops grenade launchers. Who's gonna pull a .22 on a cop when they're going to blow you into tiny giblets. __________________ 4 7 2 3 9 8 5...1 4 2 9 7 8...14 16 22...36°

15th October 2010, 16:39	#2
crocos	Given that there's been several fail-to-stops resulting in death in the media lately, this really doesn't surprise me. __________________ Ξ √ Ω L U T ↑ ☼ N وكل يوم كنت تعيش في العبودية

15th October 2010, 18:04	#3
blynk	I would also add that any person in the car as well could have their license suspended. If they aren't telling the driver to stop, then they are just as much to blame

15th October 2010, 18:16	#4
fixed_truth	I was hoping for some kind of analogy to Nationals three-strikes policy __________________ Protecting your peace is way more important than proving your point. Some people aren't open to cultivating their views. Just let them be wrong.

15th October 2010, 18:36	#6
Lightspeed	It's a bloody complex issue. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

17th October 2010, 09:41	#16
chubby	none of our cops died in gun-fights. every single one was shot down in a surprise!!! cold blooded manner. guns in a car(or even on the hip) will make no difference at all. __________________ "Take four red capsules, in ten minutes-take two more. Help is on the way."

17th October 2010, 12:51	#18
Lightspeed	The problem is it is very difficult to know precisely how the criminal perception will change. __________________ Stay shook. No sook.

17th October 2010, 12:56	#19
xor	I watched a doco on police shootings and it showed NZ cops get owned a lot more than AUS cops. And we don't exactly have crime like AUS has crime.

22nd October 2010, 19:51	#24
chubby	well, the lists I've looked at show me to be wrong historically- but less so recently. interestingly though, most of them die when they fuck it up during car-chases, or are killed during confrontations with registered firearms owners. comments? __________________ "Take four red capsules, in ten minutes-take two more. Help is on the way."