Labour Officially Announce Trying to Fuck Up GST

[fidgit]

Labour announced today, in Porirua, that when re-elected they will scrap GST on fresh fruits and vegetables.

It's an idea that's been gaining some ground, mostly I think because of the Maori party pushing it (so is this just an attempt to win back Maori voters/Maori Party support?)

The major roadblock anyone mentions is always how to define what counts as fresh fruit and vege, so rather than try to come up with an answer, Phil's just decided that anything with any processing doesn't get GST added. So frozen corn cobs are GST-added, fresh ones are not. I'm looking forward to the drop in price of my BigMacs, after the GST is removed from the lettuce leaves they contain.

Their figures are a bit suspect too - claiming $6 a week back for a family, or "$300-$400 a year", which is considerably not $6. Sure, it's not much more a week, but telling people they'll get $400 a year is disingenuous. As is the $6 claim - this assumes you currently spend ~$50 a week on fresh fruit and vegetables. Seems pretty steep.

I enjoyed their argument that Supermarkets wouldn't just ratchet up prices to soak up the difference: "too many people and consumer groups would be watching". Guess what, I work in a supermarket - we'll ratchet exactly 3 weeks after the drop, because that's how long the national attention span is, at a stretch.

So all in all, God Damnit, stop announcing stupid shit to poor people, you need the middle class too, and we aren't going to fall for it (dreams are free...)

nb. I'm not opposed to making produce cheaper for people, but I think a much better idea is taxing unhealthy food. Set limits on sat fats and sodium, and crank on a 10% tax and I'd be skinny in a year.



-edit-
linkeh: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...on-fruit-veges

[Thursday]

Originally Posted by fidgit

I work in a supermarket

Sux 2b u

[CCS]

What a dumb as shit idea.

Originally Posted by fidgit

I think a much better idea is taxing unhealthy food.

Also a dumb as shit idea.

Set limits on sat fats and sodium, and crank on a 10% tax and I'd be skinny in a year.

Wat? You need the govt to tax the fatty food you stuff down your throat in order to make you eat less of it?


Here's an idea: offer a gst rebate on fresh produce. Those who really want the savings will make the effort to apply for it.

[Ab]

Background discussion:

http://nzgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81090

[Jodi]

Fucking hell Goff, stop doing stupid things that makes people want to vote for anyone who ISN'T labour.

So far everything you have said as leader is stupid or something I don't want.

Gee, I guess i'm a national voter then. great.

[fixed_truth]

I'm not yet convinced that the costs would outweigh the benefits

Health experts back GST-free policy for fruit and veg

"Earlier this year we published research showing an 11 percent increase in purchasing of fruit and vegetables when 12.5% was taken off the price," Professor Ni Mhurchu said.
This increase equates to about half a kilo more fruits and vegetables per household each week, or about six extra servings.

[blynk]

Originally Posted by fidgit

Their figures are a bit suspect too - claiming $6 a week back for a family, or "$300-$400 a year", which is considerably not $6. Sure, it's not much more a week, but telling people they'll get $400 a year is disingenuous. As is the $6 claim - this assumes you currently spend ~$50 a week on fresh fruit and vegetables. Seems pretty steep.[/url]

How is $6 a week not $300 to $400 a year?
6 * 52 = $312
Also its more like $40
6 / 0.15 = $40

You know, you should really have correct figures.

[StN]

Exemptions from GST are just plain dumb. They were dumb when GST was introduced, and recognised as such, primarily because many accounting systems were not yet automated. They are dumb now because we have an ingrained culture of accepting GST on everything (except financial tranactions and domestic house purchases etc).

Need I remind people that when Australia went for a consumption tax, the feminists called it sexist because only women had to pay GST on tampons.

The whole fresh vs processed argument is silly when you get down to the compliance overhead that sole traders will be laboured with (Heh - see what I did there?).

I used to work with a wise old man who had helped design VAT in the UK, and was instrumental with GST here - he said we had done it a lot better because there were no grey areas for application - it was pretty black and white.

If they want to make it a health issue, whack on a fat tax.

[Cyberbob]

People aren't going to switch from big macs to granny smith just because of a slight price adjustment on shit they weren't buying previously anyway.

[CCS]

Isn't it funny how people think that you need a financial incentive to eat healthily rather than a health incentive to eat healthily.

[Ab]

Labour is an embarrassment. Worse than no opposition at all.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by Cyberbob

People aren't going to switch from big macs to granny smith just because of a slight price adjustment on shit they weren't buying previously anyway.

At least this response in in the context of evidence.

The fact is that studies show that removing GST on fruit and veg DOES increase their consumption. The 'Aussie slippery slope' argument, and the 'most efficient system is the best' argument are easily refuted. IF evidence shows that families are eating more fruit & veg together with no change in their other food consumption - then that's a legitimate problem. Though whether this can easily be addressed or if this aspect makes it unworkable, is the subsequent concern.

[SID|DensitY]

Originally Posted by CCS

Isn't it funny how people think that you need a financial incentive to eat healthily rather than a health incentive to eat healthily.

Well its because they believe Cost is the only aspect and think the lower class would pick price over health. I think cost is only part of the picture.

Laziness is also a big problem when it comes to eating healthy (or health in general). Fast food isn't always cheap but requires little preparation on the consumers part. A lot of people would still eat badly simply because its already made for them or extremely easy to prepare.

Ultimately removing GST won't remove the cost on fresh/healthy food in the long run. I'm sure initially there will be a price reduction but I'm sure the 12-15% will be worked back in due to the extra paper work required to manage and prove to the IRD that X item indeed required no GST to be charged in addition to "demand" costs if it does actually work.

[crocos]

<baleeted - blynk posted pretty much what I was going to + more>

[CCS]

That's quite far away from $400 which is what I suppose fridgit's point was. They're making the average savings sound far more attractive than they really are.



fuck your edit crocos

[crocos]

You're welcome.

[CCS]

fuck you crocos

[crocos]

Later tonight dear.

[TheBender]

Originally Posted by StN

....Need I remind people that when Australia went for a consumption tax, the feminists called it sexist because only women had to pay GST on tampons......

And men don't ? - wow, that's some sort of selective shit they got going over there.

[StN]

I wasn't making it up!

[Redneck]

"Health Minister, Dr. Michael Wooldridge, said that tampons and sanitary napkins were not health products, dismissively comparing them to shaving cream."

Lol what a fuckwit

[Ab]

This is me responding to a question like "so how did they handle selective GST exemptions in Australia?" in the National Thus Far thread.

Originally Posted by Ab

Australia has dealt with this and IT IS FUCKING RETARDED. It has turned into a US-style shitfight of special-interest groups and lobbyists doing dodgy deals with dodgy politicians.

Picture a Cayman Islands shell corporation magically controlled by Fonterra paying for the private-school fees of a few MPs' children and butter magically being made exempt from GST but margarine still attracting the full tax.

Picture certain products "Made In NZ" being exempt but imported goods attracting the tax. That is, the goods were made in China but the company has a PO Box in Mt Roskill, so they're NZ made.

Picture a whole ton of cool shit being GST-exempt in Wellington - just a coincidence that all the MPs live there - yet that same shit remaining taxed when sold in South Auckland.

Picture condoms being made exempt because they're a necessity but tampons retaining the tax because they're a luxury.

etc etc etc.

If I've heard this comment once I've heard it a hundred times: "this is fucked up, why didn't we just apply it across the board like they did in NZ?"

For instance, I notice that this policy of Labour's would categorise peas grown and frozen in NZ as "processed" (and thus taxed) while it would categorise bananas grown in Queensland and shipped over as "fresh" (and thus exempt).

Genious.

[fixed_truth]

Didn't Aussie legislate the term “basic food” rather than "“fresh fruit and vegetables”. I can see why that would be so problematic.

I know that the Govt. is pretty useless, but surely it's capable of looking at the problems of Australia and the UK, and the majority of OCED countries that have no GST on fruit & veg; and through the multiple stages that a bill has to go through before becoming an Act - & come up with something that works?

[cyc]

Maybe the government actually has slightly higher priorities like dealing with earthquake recovery, the massive deficites/balance of payment issues incurred thanks to the last useless government encouraging property speculation and doing nothing but borrow and splurge, and -- you know -- actually doing something useful rather than to save people a couple of bucks a week each?

[[Malks] Pixie]

Originally Posted by Redneck

"Health Minister, Dr. Michael Wooldridge, said that tampons and sanitary napkins were not health products, dismissively comparing them to shaving cream."

Lol what a fuckwit

I worked for MOH for a while doing stuff surrounding the funding for pregnancy services - interestingly it's separate to standard health funding in that pregnancy isn't considered to be a illness or injury (which is what the health system deals with).

Much like pregnancy, period issues are not considered to be a health issue as it's not considered to be either an illness or injury - basically it's identifying that these are natural states and not abnormal (as illness and injury are), which normally wouldn't be covered by health services.

The comparison to shaving cream, whilst unfortunate, is not so bad as both (shaving cream and tampons) are considered to be, I guess, sanitary issues instead of health issues.

I like that these these female specific issues are identified outside of the health systems general focus on illness and injury, even if it does provide some confusion when not explained rationally by professionals. It's recognition that these states of being are not abnormal or "problems".

Pixie

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by cyc

Maybe the government actually has slightly higher priorities like dealing with earthquake recovery, the massive deficites/balance of payment issues incurred thanks to the last useless government encouraging property speculation and doing nothing but borrow and splurge, and -- you know -- actually doing something useful rather than to save people a couple of bucks a week each?

Quantifying dollar values in the short term ignores the longer term payoff for the heath system.

But yeah, I guess granting the Executive powers which trample on established constitutional values and principles does get useful shit done.

[JP]

People are considerably harder on Labour than National. I think this is a pretty good example of this. It's just not that drastic, and yet look at the vitriol it gets in comparison to anything National has done since getting in.

I'm not approaching the validity of the criticisms, only that I believe it is pretty clear people are way more prone to criticise Labour than National, and in a much harsher way.

[CCS]

Lol, poor bubs, those Labours. VRWC!

[Ab]

Originally Posted by fixed_truth

But yeah, I guess granting the Executive powers which trample on established constitutional values and principles does get useful shit done.

See "Labour is an embarrassment. Worse than no opposition at all."

[fixed_truth]

Hey I'm not arguing that Labour haven't been shit since National took power, I just also happen to think that National have been pretty useless in their position. And as mentioned, the standard defence for their barely average performance is 'at least they're not Labour'.

[Ab]

No argument here, I think National has been pretty weak given the mandate it was given at the last election. But Labour is so shitty that all National HAS to do is be "not Labour".

[fixed_truth]

Well here's hoping that Labour starts to get their shit together so National can be a better government

[xor]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-GST...19541161411953

Read how tarded people are. I can't see myself voting labour next election, I don't want to be associated with the stupid.

[Vrtigo]

a better idea would be to rid the country of subsidized fizzy drinks and highly processed foods and snacks.

[fixed_truth]

Originally Posted by xor

http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-GST...19541161411953

Read how tarded people are. I can't see myself voting labour next election, I don't want to be associated with the stupid.

You do realise that this is an "Alliance Party of New Zealand" campaign?

[Jodi]

Is there a "GST is fine, leave it alone" group? Or one with a better catchphrase?

[Lightspeed]

It really seems like Labour is just tired. Aunty Helen dragged them through three terms and now they're just fucked. My hope is that the Greens can make the most of it.

[Rocket]

Originally Posted by CCS

Isn't it funny how people think that you need a financial incentive to eat healthily rather than a health incentive to eat healthily.

Clearly you don't do your own food shopping, I agree though. Supermarkets are the devil, they'll just soak it up and spit it out. Guess it'll give that Albany pak in save owner some more cash for that water truck he brings in once a week so he can sprinkle his fucking lawn in Omaha every night like I have watched him do over the fence. What a cock.

[CCS]

Retard logic ftl.

Oh, ninja edit, eh?

Originally Posted by Rocket

Clearly you don't do your own food shopping.

Fail.
Still, interesting to see that as usual you've completely failed to grasp my point. Don't just look at the individual words, Rocket. Look at the sentence.

[Rocket]

Its expensive to eat healthy, and i think it'll benefit the taxpayer to help make healthier items cheaper, but this isnt the way I guess.

CCS not too fussed over your post mate. relax.