[crocos]

Rafael: "no evidence of racial motivation".
OK sure - no hard evidence. However circumstantial evidence going on past complaints and his arresting officer record it's a fair assumption that there is a very strong chance (ex) officer Chauvin was racially motivated.

I'm not disputing the "and these other examples show that the police are shit and there's other non-racial examples"

However the BML movement if it gets any traction will benefit more than just black people if it causes the police apparatus to be reviewed.

Coleman: "Why does this only happen to black people"
So. Fucking. Wrong.
This is "Why does this disproportionately happen to black people"

Jamil's first segment: Spoke a lot of sense... but then was asked to answer "why is this a thing" and failed to address any of the systemic disadvantage that the majority of black US citizens have.

Rafael: Seems to think that physical force (lethal or not) is even the predominant issue - it is AN issue, but that poor kids and black kids feel the need to even hide from cops means not that they've done anything wrong but that they stand a high chance of being harassed for minding their own business. He restates the issue as police violence when that's far from the only issue. I do agree with the lack of data - but there is no real impetus for the cops (who are the only ones who really CAN collect this) to collect this.

Coleman: - Only things he really commented here was on gun control - which I think is a great point if only grazed at, and some weak stabs at getting rid of bad cops.

Jason: restating that black [poor] communities as the issue.

Jamil: Talked a lot of sense again. Addresses core issues again. Ignored again. Raised the class issue from the view that it's easier for the haves to criticize policing than the have-nots - basically saying that the communities that are most impacted by violence (police or otherwise) are the ones that most approve of police and that it's the hoi-poli that are criticizing them. "Maaaaybe" is my take on that one - certainly a large percentage of the more visible protesters are not exactly skint, but would you really expect those working hand-to-mouth to be able to protest? If they took the time away from work they or their family might go hungry.
Jamil then goes on to indicate that BLM does not reflect majority of black voters and if they were Biden would not have taken the Democratic candidacy - like that has anything to do with things given blacks are a minority, the reasonably well documented corruption in the democratic party around nomination (though arguably not as bad as the Republicans), and that the poorer areas (which statistically have a higher concentration of black people) are MUCH less likely to be ABLE to vote (even if have citizenship etc) due to the bullshit voting eligibility and discouragement campaigns in many states.

Jason and Jamil then go completely off-base and start in on rap/hip-hop promoting criminality (so the "they do it to themselves" argument). How interesting that the predominant audience for these "gangster fantasies" are young WHITE males according to the last sales data I looked at.

Jason:Leading statement to Raphael indicating over-policing isn't an issue and indeed looking at it is dangerous and may cause more deaths/violence/crime.

Raphael: Leans in to lethal police actions are an aberration. Again this isn't the point of ANYONE'S arguments, let alone BML's arguments as it's more "Why does this disproportionately happen to black folks?" and then raises a key point that high police brutality leads people to be less likely to report crimes... then doesn't address his own point at all.
Police withdrawing from communities: This is a vicious-cycle style reaction to the communities not trusting the police - I wonder why? Of COURSE this increases the risk profile. But why have the cops lost that trust? Simply not addressed.
Then out of nowhere he pulls a "this young mother died from random violence" with no actual context beyond that the US bail system sucks as-is, with the implication that this is why police are scared.

Jason: Refers to Jamil's points then asks why black attitudes towards police and black-caused homicides are not part of the issue, claims it's the biggest ignored issue.

Coleman: *Deep breath*
Starts by implying "Black culture" is something contentious.
Says perception is that White people that are bad should be ashamed; black people that are bad are misunderstood. I disagree: If someone is actually a shit-heel they should be treated as a shit-heel. Problem is that many perfectly innocent POC are treated as criminal without any justification... and claims that many folks that ARE shit-heels but also POC are treated as innocents and shouldn't be, claims that not holding people to account is dehumanizing. Ooohkay I kinda get what Coleman is saying here but the default human reaction is to vilify where the preponderance of evidence (or opinion) is toward guilt, so I have trouble swallowing this one.

At this point I lost interest. Possibly because I've downed a bottle and a bit of wine.