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-   -   Labour Thus Far.... (https://forums.nzgames.com/showthread.php?t=87797)

Lightspeed 23rd May 2018 17:58

The whole thing is just bullshit theatre. Our politics don't seem to allow us to approach these hard problems honestly. We've either got National's dishonest "there's no problem" or Labour's dishonest "this is a problem we can fix this year".

We can fix it, but any solution would take a generation at least, but only if people making bank on houses were willing to give up that cash cow, many of whom are politicians, or support them.

As I see it the first step is raising children with the ability and willingness to enter the building industry. At the moment too many kids are going to jail, hospital or the morgue instead of going to work. Importing labour only escalates the problem.

While that's going on we work on issues of land supply and infrastructure to support higher population density.

But as soon as we approach these problems, so quickly we'll hear the Mark Robertsons, Mike Hoskings or whoever crying about how they can come up with this fringe case or that where someone will miss out. Indifferent of course to the volume of people already missing out.

Partisanship is another part of the problem. For some it's only shameful that National denied the problem or that Labour made out they could solve it.

Ab 23rd May 2018 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCS (Post 2003230)
The houses will be restricted to first time buyers. Which is not to say that there aren't ways around that, such as shill buyers.

Oh right. Still fucked though.

CCS 23rd May 2018 19:22

I wonder if a corporate entity can buy these houses.

BoyWonder 24th May 2018 00:01

Seriously, isn't it time to tax empty houses (provided it is practical to enforce).

The result as I see it is: 1) an increase in supply of rental properties helping those at the bottom of the ladder; 2) put more houses on the market easing some pressure there (at least in the short term); 3) deter crime (a neighbourhood is made up of people, not derelict houses); 4) divert investment money into businesses employing people.

The cons: "But what about my bach?" Put it on airbnb, you'll be fine.

Ab 24th May 2018 13:00

Labour just cut funding to universities in real terms

http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot....ent-blues.html

StN 24th May 2018 19:44

Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

BoyWonder 24th May 2018 20:42

Phil is probably wondering what it takes to get fired. Next he will charge the cockpit door and see if that's the path to freedom.

Ab 25th May 2018 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN (Post 2003242)
Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

are we talking about the guy who called for Gerry Brownlee's head when Brownlee bypassed an airport security screening?

fixed_truth 25th May 2018 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyWonder (Post 2003238)
Seriously, isn't it time to tax empty houses (provided it is practical to enforce).

The result as I see it is: 1) an increase in supply of rental properties helping those at the bottom of the ladder; 2) put more houses on the market easing some pressure there (at least in the short term); 3) deter crime (a neighbourhood is made up of people, not derelict houses); 4) divert investment money into businesses employing people.

The cons: "But what about my bach?" Put it on airbnb, you'll be fine.

Yes

blynk 25th May 2018 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StN (Post 2003242)
Pro tip - if you are the minister in charge of the CAA, don't use your phone on a plane after the door is closed...

Not that a fly a lot. But I never realised the closing of the doors signalled the ending of phone use.

I assume this must have happened after the flight crew walked down telling everyone to put away their stuff.

blynk 25th May 2018 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2003245)
are we talking about the guy who called for Gerry Brownlee's head when Brownlee bypassed an airport security screening?

If that is the case, he did offer his resignation.
If Adern was calling for Brownlee's head, then that would be hyprocrisy

fixed_truth 26th May 2018 19:22

Breaking News!!?! Transport Minister Phil Twyford accused of standing on plane while seatbelt light on

Quote:

National MP Judith Collins says Transport Minister Phil Twyford stood up on a plane while the seatbelt sign was on to put his jacket in an overhead locker.
What I cunt, I bet he hogged the armrests and took a handful of lollies too.

Ab 27th May 2018 00:05

BAN HIM

CCS 27th May 2018 10:02

Remember when Judith Collins had a sip of milk and everyone lost their shit?

Ab 27th May 2018 13:32

Remember when Phil Twyford promised to build lots of houses and fix the housing crisis

Lightspeed 27th May 2018 16:44

Remember when National's police minister tried to interfere in a police case on behalf of a party donor?

Ab 27th May 2018 21:27

Was his name William Yan?

Lightspeed 27th May 2018 22:28

No, it was a different Chinese businessmen with his tendrils in NZ politics.

Ab 5th June 2018 23:04

this is a very sensible way of formulating energy and economic policy

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/104...il-exploration

Lightspeed 5th June 2018 23:46

We didn't seem concerned 12 months ago that National didn't have a plan in the eventuality we don't find oil... Were we concerned about that? I can't recall anyone going "hey, that's great we're looking for oil, but what happens if we don't find it?"

Ab 8th June 2018 23:19

o/meet the new boss
 
Labour opens Cabinet Club

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/1045...-private-clubs

fixed_truth 11th June 2018 15:26

Winston not supporting 3 strikes repeal. Shame because it's a bad law. It will be interesting to see if this will lift NZ first again and maybe win over some soft National supporters liking his keeping of the govt. in check.

Ab 11th June 2018 17:55

Incompetence from Little. That law change would have sparked an NZ First revolt and cost Labour government.

blynk 12th June 2018 13:29

Its interesting to hear different sides of this.

Obviously the right about how dysfunctional the government is etc.
And a view of the left, how Labour & NZF come out looking good.
Labour tried, but it was NZF that said no so looks good to their base, and that NZF said no so that looks good to their base.

And it takes some of the wind out of the sails of National at the next election.

Ab 27th June 2018 11:54

Quote:

Public reporting of District Health Boards' (DHB) performance of procedures including elective surgeries, cancer treatment times and Emergency Department wait times, has been axed.

It also appears a new project to publicly measure elective surgery referrals and rejections has also been quietly shelved, with the Ministry of Health failing to release updated figures since the election.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...health-targets
What the actual fuck?

Lightspeed 27th June 2018 15:53

Public healthcare is doing so well, we don't need to report on it. Jonathan Coleman must rue taking on work at a private healthcare provider, how will they be able to compete with public health?

Ab 28th June 2018 12:41

Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

fixed_truth 28th June 2018 12:56

I have no problem with outcome measures being more useful. For example the current system seems to result in more cheaper interventions to boost statistics rather than spending on what interventions have the best & most durable health benefits.

Lightspeed 28th June 2018 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2003524)
Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

So they're maintaining the status quo.

Cyberbob 28th June 2018 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2003524)
Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

I'm most concerned about the lack of accountability and transparency.

CCS 28th June 2018 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed (Post 2003531)
So they're maintaining the status quo.


Oh? I thought they were going to be transformational.

[Malks] Pixie 28th June 2018 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2003524)
Labour seems to be running an evidence-free government. Policy based on the feels, not data.

As someone said, status quo. But seriously there are big fucking problems with the idea of ONLY using evidence based policy.

This is old, and refers to National, but the core ideas are applicable across any government in power.

Fear the Datatopia

Choice quotes that summarise the problem - but I encourage folks to read the entire thing. It's Keith Ng, he's almost always a good read.

Quote:

What if the US civil rights movement was assessed like this?

The changes in wellbeing for African-Americans don’t show up for years, but racial violence spiked as a direct response to the reforms. From the evidence, it looked like the civil rights reforms wasn’t making people’s lives better and was actually causing violence! So it should be abandoned – right?
Quote:

But most policies are going to be much lamer: There is insufficient evidence to prove that a thing which should work in theory is, in fact, working. Should we push through that?

There are several reasons why there might not be evidence. We could be measuring the wrong things, we could be measuring the right things in the wrong way, or maybe it actually just doesn’t work.
Quote:

But a cornerstone of the scientific method is the null hypothesis: The assumption that nope, that drug doesn’t cure cancer; nope, the Higg Boson isn’t there; and nope, the policy doesn’t work. The null hypothesis is the default – like “innocent until proven guilty”, it’s presumed that things don’t cure cancer until it’s proven that it does. It’s a great standard for science, but it’s a catastrophic principle to apply to government.
Quote:

Science is about challenging, acquiring, and testing knowledge. It loses nothing from being uncertain, but false knowledge can lead science astray for years, even centuries. That’s why the scientific method is skeptical and conservative by design.

Governance is about making decisions with imperfect knowledge. They have to be best guesses because inaction can be as catastrophic as incorrect action, and because sometimes solid knowledge is hard to come by.

Lightspeed 28th June 2018 23:37

I think Curran has to go.

Advisory Group notes meeting subject to OIA, stops taking minutes

This is what I expect from National, except they're better at it.

Lightspeed 28th June 2018 23:46

To be clear, mainly cause this was such a dumb move and a waste of talent and this seems like more of the same:

Carol Hirschfeld resigns from Radio New Zealand after controversial meeting with Broadcasting Minister

Ab 29th June 2018 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed (Post 2003531)
So they're maintaining the status quo.

Wtf

Lightspeed 29th June 2018 01:22

Is it that you never heard about National neglecting to gather evidence, or you just didn't believe those who made the claim? You took their evidence based policy on face value, accepted that it was a genuine attempt to use robust and appropriate measures to inform policy. Not a tactic to muzzle criticism of unpopular policies because after all they're just following the evidence, *arms folded*, /smug look.

Ab 7th July 2018 14:21

Kiwibuild trainwreck keeps on trainwreckin

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-for-all.html

crocos 8th July 2018 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed (Post 2003539)
I think Curran has to go.

Advisory Group notes meeting subject to OIA, stops taking minutes

This is what I expect from National, except they're better at it.

Also Trevor the Duck is the worst speaker ever.

fixed_truth 9th July 2018 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2003589)
Kiwibuild trainwreck keeps on trainwreckin

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...e-for-all.html

I think Nationals do nothing housing policy is why families on higher incomes are still 'first home buyers'.

A positive is that they're on track to meet targets so far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...housing-market

Juju 9th July 2018 10:35

See, everyone is winging about how the income cap is high for these kiwibuild homes, and the lower class are going to have to compete with the middle class to get into the program.

No one is pointing out the fact that these kiwibuild homes are going to cost between $500-650k.
Let's assume the lower class people have put together a very healthy $100k deposit.

That's a $500k mortgage for a 2 bedroom kiwibuild. Or $690 per week@6%. That's $140 more than the rent for any 2 bedroom house in South Auckland that's on trademe right now.


With a lower class couple earning $60k between them, that's $925 per week, or $235 p/w after the mortgage.
Take out rates ($30 per week), water ($20), power ($50) - that's $135 left for everything else - food, petrol, clothing.

Let's say you only need a 10% deposit. Then your mortgage is $747 per week... which leaves you with $178 per week for everything else.

I'm not sure those lower incomers crowing about how "unfair" the eligibility criteria understand the ramifications of what they are asking for.


Ps: I hate that house prices have become so un-affordable that it's a pipe dream for the majority of the population now, it really sucks. I'm just pointing out that the media has, once again, focused on the "oh woe is me" narrative rather that the blunt, and shitty, reality of the real world.


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