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Ab 1st March 2018 17:08
Disagree. The issue here is not one of ideas, or openness, or advertising budgets. It's a simple "competition for a resource" issue in the era of capitalism, no different from oildrilling or fishing.

The resource is human attention. The resource is limited by each human's waking hours*. Companies trying to capture that resource are competing with each other. And it's zero-sum competition - if Facebook has your attention, for as long as it has your attention Twitter does not have it. Or Snapchat. Or Netflix. If I win that means I am making you lose.

The companies measure their success by their stock values**, and that stock value is tied to performance. How are they measuring performance? Users and engagement. How many humans' attention do you have and how often do you have it. The more attention you get from more humans, the better your quarterly filings are, the better your stock price performs, the more money you have to chase the humans and the attention. Wheee, positive feedback loop.

And these companiesare now so rich they have essentially unlimited funding with which to pursue that attention.

Here's the fun bit: if you're in an unregulated crowded market trying to sell a consumable good, the first company to make its product legally addictive wins the game.

So you have a bunch of incredibly rich technology companies whose continued richness depends on them making the thing that captures the most human attention in such a way that humans are addicted to doing it. And their activities in pursuing this goal are essentially unregulated, thanks to the US DMCA (Google made sure that there was a "we can't be held responsible for the stuff our users post to our services" provision in that law to cover it from Youtube copyright suits. That provision means that the services have blanket cover from govt regulation because hey, we just aggregate the users' own content, right?)

Summary: anyone who plays in this game is fucked.

* hence why different tactics. Facebook: we want your waking hours. Netflix: we want to increase the number of waking hours you have.

** see: https://www.cringely.com/2018/02/26/...-middle-class/

Lightspeed 1st March 2018 22:09
Something something deregulation something neolib something.

Nich 2nd March 2018 11:09
Yes, I am not seeing the proverbial forest (the Facebook, twitter, et al) for the trees (CNN wanting as many followers as PewDiePie)

Ab 2nd March 2018 13:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightspeed (Post 2002262)
Something something deregulation something neolib something.
Once upon a time it was possible for heroin to be removed from pharmacy shelves, and for methamphetamine chocolate bars to be banned, and for age restrictions to be placed on the sale of alcohol, because the companies making those products weren't already powerful enough to change governments.

DrTiTus 2nd March 2018 14:46
What would Richard Stallman do?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
I am careful in how I use the Internet.

I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it (using konqueror, which won't fetch from other sites in such a situation).

I occasionally also browse unrelated sites using IceCat via Tor. Except for rare cases, I do not identify myself to them. I think that is enough to prevent my browsing from being connected with me. IceCat blocks tracking tags and most fingerprinting methods.

I never pay for anything on the Web. Anything on the net that requires payment, I don't do. (I made an exception for the fees for the stallman.org domain, since that is connected with me anyway.) I also avoid paying with credit cards. For freedom's sake, insist on paying cash. When a business pressures you to pay in an identified way, that means your help as a citizen is needed: say, "If you won't take my cash, no sale!"

I would not mind paying for a copy of an e-book or music recording on the Internet if I could do so anonymously, and it were ethical in other ways (no DRM or EULA). But that option almost never exists. I keep looking for ways to make it exist.

...

I have never had a Facebook account, or a Google+ account. Some impostor created a Facebook account using my name. The page is not mine. The Google+ account using my name is also not mine.

I reject Facebook because it requires each used (i.e., person used by Facebook) to have just one account, which means that all the person's activities are grouped together. It also insists on knowing the person's usual name, and it is starting to demand a series of different photos.

I am proud to identify myself when stating my views; I can afford to do that because I am in a fairly safe position. There are people who rationally fear reprisals (from employers, gangsters, right-wing extremists, or the state) if they sign their name to their views. For their sake, let's reject any social networking site which insists on connecting an account to a person's real identity.

Of course, Facebook is bad for many other reasons as well.

Google+ formerly required knowing the user's real name, but no longer. However, it does require identification in the form of a phone number.

Meanwhile, Google+ has another unacceptable injustice: it requires running nonfree Javascript code to post a message.
I didn't expect to ever say this, but maybe more people need to be more like Richard Stallman. *picks hard skin from his feet and eats it*

We are the ones agreeing to give up our attention/information/meta-data through our own laziness, mostly for convenience. Therefore, the solution depends on us modifying our own behaviours. Even this site gives Google information, which is not our attention, but Google still benefits by learning more about us as individuals.

CCS 2nd March 2018 16:22
^^^ There's careful, and then there's straight-up nutty.

[Malks] Pixie 2nd March 2018 17:05
Would anyone be interested in actual books on these topics? Because I've got a list as long as my (short stubby little) arms from when I studied (and tutored) this stuff at uni.

I think, as Nich said, it's hard to connect the two topics without understanding the backgrounds & practices behind each field - I'm more knowledgeable about the news end of things than the social media end.

Ab 2nd March 2018 18:24
Yeah I'm game, post some titles.

[Malks] Pixie 2nd March 2018 21:56
I'll rustle up some resources over the weekend - people can take and leave what they want. I'll try and find as much freely accessible stuff as I can.

Mabd 5th March 2018 16:27
I came looking for the Lizzy Shaw hate fuck thread since she is a regular commenter in Stuff political threads but I saw this thread full of old fogies grouching about social media.

I felt compelled, being an old fogie myself, to comment.

Me too. Killed FB 3 weeks ago. Feel much better.

Cyberbob 5th March 2018 17:04
A Wild Mabd appears!

He even remembered to use the little devil icon.

Ab 5th March 2018 17:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabd (Post 2002302)
I came looking for the Lizzy Shaw hate fuck thread since she is a regular commenter in Stuff political threads but I saw this thread full of old fogies grouching about social media.

I felt compelled, being an old fogie myself, to comment.

Me too. Killed FB 3 weeks ago. Feel much better.
Welcome back you old bastard!

Yes - I haven't regretted being off FB/Twitter/Insta/Snapchat for a second.

Lightspeed 5th March 2018 17:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabd (Post 2002302)
I came looking for the Lizzy Shaw hate fuck thread since she is a regular commenter in Stuff political threads
That's what you get for reading Stuff comments. Don't go bringing that nasty business here.

pxpx 9th March 2018 12:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2002275)
Yeah I'm game, post some titles.

Thought / hoped that this said "post some titties"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2002304)
Welcome back you old bastard!

Yes - I haven't regretted being off FB/Twitter/Insta/Snapchat for a second.

I kinda liked your twitter content.

Ab 9th March 2018 13:21
Cheers. But I was starting to care too much about it. I was starting to enjoy that ego-stroke of being Mr Witty Internet Guy and counting my likes and shares. Which is how they hook you.

crocos 9th March 2018 13:21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpx (Post 2002344)
Thought / hoped that this said "post some titties
Wrong thread.

Lightspeed 9th March 2018 14:05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2002347)
I was starting to enjoy that ego-stroke of being Mr Witty Internet Guy and counting my likes and shares.
I call it ego-tripping. I'm totally guilty of it on Reddit, but at least there's a layer of anonymity there.

Ab 20th March 2018 13:53
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/18/ev...n-explanation/

Quote:
Facebook is a breeding ground for fake news and polarized outrage, accused of corrupting democracy and spurring genocide. Twitter knows it has become a seething battleground of widespread, targeted abuse — but has no solution. YouTube videos are messing with the minds of children and adults alike — so YouTube decided to pass the buck to Wikipedia, without telling them.

All three of those sentences would have seemed nearly unimaginable five years ago. What the hell is going on?

StN 20th March 2018 18:32
They don't even mention the NZ Idol thread - amateurs...

Ab 21st March 2018 14:29
something something cambridge analytica

Ajax 21st March 2018 19:15
I’m a light user of FB, LinkedIn and Twitter - very rarely post anything public, logging in almost exclusively for the purpose of keeping in touch with close friends, family and some former colleagues. All news, advertising, political opinions etc are summarily ignored (I get very little in my feeds anyway). This arrangement works very nicely for me tbh.

Ab 22nd March 2018 13:45
Interesting take on the Cambridge Analytica disaster, ideas not entirely mine (Gruber, Cringely, randos in the street):

Zuckerberg knew in 2015 that Cambridge Analytica had been using Facebook to identify and manipulate voters as part of the Trump campaign.

Zuckerberg lied to the entire world when he said, in 2016 "Personally I think the idea that fake news on Facebook, which is a very small amount of the content, influenced the election in any way — I think is a pretty crazy idea".

We now know that he fucking knew it had been happening, and Trump's victory proved that it worked. Zuckerberg spinning FUD about it and not doing anything to change the Facebook functionality and policies that enable it suggest one conclusion:

The Facebook functionality and policies that enable voter manipulation to sway elections were there deliberately because Zuckerberg intended to use them himself, for himself. I know, silly, because Zuckerberg isn't running for President.

Totally not running for President.

Lightspeed 22nd March 2018 14:37
We're swimming in data but barely perceive its value.

Huge data volumes, ultra-fast machines, contemporary AI... the possibilities are intense.

Cyberbob 22nd March 2018 17:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab (Post 2002496)
Interesting take on the Cambridge Analytica disaster, ideas not entirely mine (Gruber, Cringely, randos in the street):

Zuckerberg knew in 2015 that Cambridge Analytica had been using Facebook to identify and manipulate voters as part of the Trump campaign.

Zuckerberg lied to the entire world when he said, in 2016 "Personally I think the idea that fake news on Facebook, which is a very small amount of the content, influenced the election in any way — I think is a pretty crazy idea".

We now know that he fucking knew it had been happening, and Trump's victory proved that it worked. Zuckerberg spinning FUD about it and not doing anything to change the Facebook functionality and policies that enable it suggest one conclusion:

The Facebook functionality and policies that enable voter manipulation to sway elections were there deliberately because Zuckerberg intended to use them himself, for himself. I know, silly, because Zuckerberg isn't running for President.

Totally not running for President.

Lightspeed 23rd March 2018 16:50
If anyone is upset about Cambridge Analytica it's the current media conglomerates who are losing their current monopoly on influencing public decisions.

StN 24th March 2018 09:32
Oh Elon, you so funny!

https://twitter.com/Bryson_M/status/...219776/photo/1

crocos 25th March 2018 23:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by StN (Post 2002512)
Got a link to his actual tweet? Twitter is bitching about too many replies

StN 26th March 2018 08:04
Hmmm - try here.

crocos 26th March 2018 12:01
Ta

Lightspeed 26th March 2018 17:29
Quote:
Afterward, a follower told Musk he should delete SpaceX’s Facebook page if Musk was “the man.” Musk claimed he didn’t even know it existed and then said he would, probably in an attempt to preserve his “the man” status.
Hahaha. He is the man though.

Nich 28th March 2018 12:59
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...google-collect

Yikes. At least Google lets you view the data collection

Ab 28th March 2018 13:45
Here Are The Myriad Ways Facebook Is Getting Dunked On Right Now

Lightspeed 28th March 2018 14:40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich (Post 2002561)
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...google-collect

Yikes. At least Google lets you view the data collection
I doubt Google would let you see what DoubleClick has collected on us. Social media is only one vector of tracking.

Nich 28th March 2018 15:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eMYiDaY3-Q

see also Silicon Valley opening sequence with Facebook billboard.

crocos 28th March 2018 16:13
http://optout.aboutads.info
Because fuck it, why not. Opt out of as many things as you can. This is on a PER BROWSER basis though.

Nich 1st April 2018 20:56
https://alternative-science.com/tech...-musk-facebook

I hope this is true.

Elon Musk offers to buy 100% ownership of Facebook so he can delete it and “do humanity a favour”

Ab 1st April 2018 22:56
What part of it strikes you as true? 😉

crocos 2nd April 2018 20:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich (Post 2002592)
https://alternative-science.com/tech...-musk-facebook

I hope this is true.

Elon Musk offers to buy 100% ownership of Facebook so he can delete it and “do humanity a favour”
You haven't checked a calendar lately, no?

Nich 3rd April 2018 14:59
April fools or no, I would enjoy Facebook falling into the bargain bin.

Lightspeed 3rd April 2018 15:01
It would be something to see if Facebook suddenly just stopped.


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